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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 30 Apr 2009 (Thursday) 13:03
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isn't the battle over 2.8 and 4.0 a little ridiculous?

 
Project22a
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May 02, 2009 14:34 |  #61

bps wrote in post #7841460 (external link)
An extra stop can make all the difference in the world...

Pretty much. It could be the difference between a shot and no shot at all.


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Rey
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May 02, 2009 14:35 |  #62

Sounds like sour grapes to me for anyone arguing over the advantage that f2.8 has over f4. It all depends on what you are shooting or anticipate shooting. Personally, I'll take a faster lens over IS any day. If I can have both at longer focal lengths then I'll take both.


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CAL ­ Imagery
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May 02, 2009 15:20 |  #63

Don't forget about DOF. When shooting sports, an uncluttered picture is essential, Sportsshooter goes on to talk about that when applying for them. So, not only can you get a faster SS or lower ISO for sports, you don't have pictures that look like a P&S camera took them and are now on facebook.


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Amamba
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May 02, 2009 15:30 |  #64

Jerobean wrote in post #7832716 (external link)
I constantly see people talking about 2.8 like it's a godsend. In real world shooting, if you can't get an image with f4, how likely is it that it will be a great shot at f2.8?

Maybe I'm just not in the correct conditions to recognize it. I feel that I'd need a fast prime to capture the images in dark situations that I can't with my other lenses.

this is not taking into account DOF issues, just being able to get the shutter speed to get the shot.

discuss

40d/10-22/24-105/70-300do

In my real world I have the need for 2.8 quite often, and most shots are probably at 3 or 3.5.

I guess it all depends on your style / conditions. And how good your high ISO is.. (XTi starts to suck at 800 and sometimes even at 400 :( )


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sharrowm
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May 02, 2009 17:54 |  #65

tonylong wrote in post #7844911 (external link)
Two things that you forget (or aren't familiar with): first, an f/2.8 lens triggers an extra "AF assist" sensor in our DSLRs, at least in the prosumer and pro cameras, that makes AF in the center more accurate, which is an advantage for high performance shooting, especially in lower light.

Second, the use of a f/2.8 or wider lens gives more latitude for the use of teleconverters, which are valuable when you need the reach.

No, I did not forget and yes, I am familiar with those advantages. That is why I made the following comment:

"I also understand that no matter how good bodies get 2.8 will always have certain advantages over 4.0."

My point is that technology has already removed some of the advantages of the extra f-stop and as time passes technology will no doubt close the gap even more. Not only will ISO performance continue to improve. So will AF (among other things). It would not surprise me at all if in the near future the 2 advantages you listed are gone. The only advantage that seems to be untouchable right now is the difference in DOF. Maybe I'm being presumptuous, but I think that most would agree that a 2.8 lens had a much stronger advantage over a 4.0 lens on older bodies than it does on newer bodies. And, while it still has a defend-able advantage today, doesn't it make sense that technology will continue to close the gap? You can certainly make a strong argument that the battle over 2.8 and 4.0 is not "ridiculous" but I can see it heading that way.


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tonylong
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May 02, 2009 18:44 |  #66

Hmmm...technology has certainly pushed the bar higher, but that doesn't diminish the advantages of the faster lens. I don't see how you get that conclusion, when in any lighting the faster lens will show every advantage.

But, this isn't an appeal to "gear snobbery". As I've said, I use an f/4 lens a lot, both the 24-105 and the 100-400 are "slower" lenses but they do fine for me when they are in the proper conditions. But still, I know when to grab a faster lens.


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RDKirk
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May 02, 2009 18:45 as a reply to  @ sharrowm's post |  #67

And, while it still has a defend-able advantage today, doesn't it make sense that technology will continue to close the gap?

I think the first time I personally heard that statement in reference to photographic technology was in 1968.


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Lacks_focus
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May 02, 2009 19:35 |  #68

sharrowm wrote in post #7845882 (external link)
My point is that technology has already removed some of the advantages of the extra f-stop and as time passes technology will no doubt close the gap even more.

The gap will never close. One stop more light is always going to be one stop more light. The thing that will change with new cameras having better focus speed / high ISO technology is what we will accept as normal performance. It wasn't too long ago that I was mostly happy with the IQ of 1600 speed film. Now when I look at shots I took using that stuff, I think of old news print the grain is so bad. The gap will not close between f/2.8 and f/4; the bar will just continue to rise in performance.


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jr_senator
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May 02, 2009 20:36 |  #69

I don't care for a lens slower than f/2.8. Many of Canon's cameras only access their best AF mode with lenses f/2.8 or faster.



  
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silvex
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May 02, 2009 21:06 |  #70

Like some said. Regardless of technology a ona F-stop will always be there. I am sure in 20 some years there *might* be other sensors and material that Lenses will be made of. Yet optics law will not change and the extra stop will ALWAYS be an extra stop.
You can bump the 5DMkII to ISO6400 on a F4 glass...but the lenses with F1.2, f1.4, f1.8 f2 and f2.8 f-stop(s) WILL have the advantage.

I am sure a 200L f/2 ISO1600 is better than 200f/2.8 ISO3200 and MUCH better than 200f/4 ISO6400 even on a 5DMkII. Assuming you can even focus or get a decent shutter speed with the f4 ISO6400 settings.


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Double ­ Negative
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May 03, 2009 07:24 |  #71

jr_senator wrote in post #7846646 (external link)
I don't care for a lens slower than f/2.8. Many of Canon's cameras only access their best AF mode with lenses f/2.8 or faster.

This is a biggie, IMO. That extra stop helps in a lot of ways; this is certainly one of them.


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isn't the battle over 2.8 and 4.0 a little ridiculous?
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