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FORUMS Marketplace & Market Info Market Watch 
Thread started 02 May 2009 (Saturday) 01:28
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Help - scam?

 
JChin
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Jun 02, 2009 22:48 |  #76

Damn ... at least let other POTN members knows which city, state and zip this guy is in so they are more cautious on their transactions with that town, since we are not allowed to know who this "I want a free loaner" dude is.


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JChin
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Jun 02, 2009 22:55 |  #77

OP ... did you check to make sure he didn't swap your lens?


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JChin
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Jun 02, 2009 22:59 |  #78

Pete ... I don't think banning this guy is going to stop him from coming back to prey on POTN sellers. He can always create another account, using another e-mail address and use another alias name (it appears that on various FM posts, he is believed to have used several different names).


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mritchy
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Jun 02, 2009 23:27 |  #79

I bought into a 50D kit that this jerk had up. Got scammed. Still waiting for money from over 6 weeks ago.


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TeamSpeed
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Jun 03, 2009 10:15 |  #80

Pete wrote in post #8033963 (external link)
Even though this guy has been banned, we do not allow bad feedback or lynchings here.

As has been stated many time, there can (and mostly are) perfectly genuine reasons for why some deals don't go as quickly as the least patient party would like.

Is we allowed negative feedback and public naming of members who (at first sniff) appear to be scammers, then pre-emptive naming and shaming could very well damage the reputation of perfectly genuine members here.

This policy is one of several that I feel has keep POTN very nice and friendly. This is one of the more friendly and well-modded boards that I am a member of. I understand people want to vent about a bad transaction, but in the end, it just turns into name calling and threats like it already has on FM. If people could self-police themselves to just supplying the facts at hand, then it may be a different story, but invariably it turns into a 95% useless thread. Seen it on many boards.

I certainly would like a way to know those that have proven to be bad sellers or scammers, but I don't want to read everyone's opinion of the person, I just want the facts to draw my own conclusions. In the end, there are many steps you can take for due diligence before shuffling your hard earned cash off to somebody where you greatly reduce your risk.


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Double ­ Negative
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Jun 03, 2009 12:53 |  #81

It's this very policy of "everything's rainbows and unicorns" that allowed several POTN members to get scammed out of several thousand dollars collectively before.

The member should be banned immediately and people MADE AWARE. Not hidden. If a member chooses to screw over his fellow POTN'ers then he should reap the consequences of his actions.

See more on this guy who has gone on to scam people on FM as well: http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/76971​5 (external link)


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Pete
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Jun 03, 2009 14:12 |  #82

TeamSpeed wrote in post #8041736 (external link)
In the end, there are many steps you can take for due diligence before shuffling your hard earned cash off to somebody where you greatly reduce your risk.

This is the position of POTN on this. We make it clear that deals performed here are at your own risk and POTN cannot completely protect it's members from scammers.

We (POTN moderators) have discussed long and hard about the rare situations where our valued members have been scammed. Unfortuntely, there is no way that we can identify who is a scammer and who is not (we have already explained at length why we do not allow negative feedback here). Needless to say, we cannot enter into exhaustive investigations on accused scammers. Deals here are, after all, entered into at your own risk.

The 30 day/30 post limitation on the sell section has gone some way to stopping people registering here simply to take money from people. That being said, we are open to contructive ideas about how further we can protect our membership while retaining our good community spirit. One thing we know is that lynch-mobs are not the answer.


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Mk1Racer
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Jun 03, 2009 14:26 |  #83

Pete,

Maybe you missed my question before. Why was he banned?

And if you want a suggestion as to how to better protect POTN members from scammers, how about this?

The mods maintain a list of documented, proven scammers. This includes know screen names, as well as real-world info (name, addy, etc.). It's a read-only list that only the mods/admins can update. I'm someone brings you conclusive evidence that they've been scammed by someone, the scammer goes on the list. Discussions regarding members on the list is prohibited. And since the incidence of POTN members getting scammed is rare, it shouldn't be that big a deal to maintain the list.

As someone pointed out, banning doesn't really work. New screen names and email addresses make it very hard to police. I know, I was a mod on a very large forum, and we were constantly having to deal w/ 'problem children'. Many have been banned dozens and dozens of times. Some were so bad that IP bans were employed. But many were still able to come back and cause trouble.


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Pete
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Jun 03, 2009 14:29 |  #84

1) We don't discuss the reasons for people being banned here.

2) Whenever we ban people, we keep a watch for them returning. Anyone coming back with a different email address/screen name is immediately banned again. We have tools available to us to track returning members. The 30 day/30 post ruling also gives us time to trap these guys before they "attack" again.


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Skip ­ Souza
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Jun 03, 2009 14:34 |  #85

If you suspect a problem then

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'text/html'
and we'll look into it.

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TeamSpeed
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Jun 03, 2009 14:48 |  #86

Mk1Racer wrote in post #8043229 (external link)
The mods maintain a list of documented, proven scammers. This includes know screen names, as well as real-world info (name, addy, etc.). It's a read-only list that only the mods/admins can update. I'm someone brings you conclusive evidence that they've been scammed by someone, the scammer goes on the list. Discussions regarding members on the list is prohibited. And since the incidence of POTN members getting scammed is rare, it shouldn't be that big a deal to maintain the list.

Liability and legality comes to mind, like libel/slander lawsuits. Trust me, you don't really want to be the responsibility party that maintains a public list of real-world info of people you claim to be scum of the earth, unless you have a legal team at your disposal. I don't care how much internet dirt you can dig up on the people on that list, invariably the court will side with the person bringing the libel suit. People's internet/forum testimonies are not considered proof. Signed affadavits and the costs that go along with that go farther, but in the end, the entire process, one way or another, will cost you.

Maybe use another forum or Google group or something for this that can be shared by POTN members, but is not related to POTN....


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TeamSpeed
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Jun 03, 2009 16:07 |  #87

Double Negative wrote in post #8042584 (external link)
It's this very policy of "everything's rainbows and unicorns" that allowed several POTN members to get scammed out of several thousand dollars collectively before.

The member should be banned immediately and people MADE AWARE. Not hidden. If a member chooses to screw over his fellow POTN'ers then he should reap the consequences of his actions.

See more on this guy who has gone on to scam people on FM as well: http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/76971​5 (external link)

And Fred finally removed that thread from FM as well...


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Double ­ Negative
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Jun 03, 2009 16:18 |  #88

^ Yeah, saw that...


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Mk1Racer
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Jun 03, 2009 21:44 |  #89

TeamSpeed wrote in post #8043379 (external link)
Maybe use another forum or Google group or something for this that can be shared by POTN members, but is not related to POTN....

Sounds like a good idea.


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cacawcacaw
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Mar 17, 2011 12:33 as a reply to  @ Mk1Racer's post |  #90

The tools already exist for buyers to do their due diligence. The problem is that many think that no reputation or an unverified reputation is just as good as a confirmed positive reputation.

There is risk involved with every transaction and due diligence carries a time and energy cost. For every transaction, a savvy buyer will weigh the value of the opportunity, the degree of risk, and the due diligence cost.

I've seen several cases in this forum where naive buyers take significant risk while investing the minimum into due diligence, all for an opportunity that isn't very valuable. Louie saw that he was saving about $100 (and the time required for further shopping) but he didn't take a moment to consider the high risk involved. (Or, like some, just doesn't see the difference between buying from a stranger and shopping at Costco. Excuse me for talking about you as if you're not listening. I wonder how often this happens to others who are too ashamed to mention it to anyone else.)

Anyway, I still think it would be very valuable to have a short sticky (that's what she said), readable in just two minutes, with a summary of risks involved and a short checklist for buyers and sellers.


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