Help - colour space/rendering problem

Hi. I seem to have a problem with colour rendering with some of my apps and I do not understand why. I am using a monitor profile, with calibration performed a couple of weeks ago. I have a raw file that I have processed to JPEG (sRGB and Adobe RGB versions) in Lightroom. The colours look perfectly OK in Lightroom and the JPEGs look pretty close in DPP and Windows Vista Photo Gallery Viewer. Oddly, the whites seem to have a hint of magenta in them when viewed in DPP, despite specifying the correct monitor profile within the preferences, but all in all it's not too bad.

However, when viewing the JPEGs in Zoombrowser and Picasa Photo Viewer the colours are way off. In particular the grass, which should be a vivid green (new spring grass on a sunny day) look a sort of mucky mustardy brownish green - bloody awful. The colour space is included in the JPEG files and is correct. It matters not whether I view the sRGB version or the Adobe RGB version - both are cack. I do not understand why Zoombrowser and Picasa are screwing up and I'd appreciate any ideas.

Here is a screen print of the various apps, each showing the sRGB version of the JPEG, with the raw file open in Lightroom. The raw file is open in Lightroom in the top right hand corner and is my yardstick for judging colour. DPP is top left and Windows Photo Gallery is bottom left. They are passable enough. Picasa viewer is centre and Zoombrowser is bottom right. They just look like rubbish and not fit for viewing image files.

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Put the high res image online. Do you really need to put the monitor profile in DPP? As I understand it you just need it in the windows color control panel.

Lightroom and Photoshop are "color-managed aware" applications. I'm not sure about Picasa; however, zoom browser may only be showing the JPEG (thumbnail) embedded in the RAW file. If you have Adobe98 color space set, it may not render the thumbnails properly.

Even on the Mac, you need to select the proper monitor color profile for DPP

tim wrote in post #7871357
Put the high res image online. Do you really need to put the monitor profile in DPP? As I understand it you just need it in the windows color control panel.

Which high res image? Lightroom is the only app showing the original raw file. All the others are showing the same 800x533 JPEG as output from Lightroom.

It makes no sense to me why you have to specify your monitor profile within DPP, but the field is present to supply the calibration file and supposedly you should provide the file name. Since every other app - Explorer, Word etc. etc gets affected by the profile I do not understand why DPP needs it specified, as it too gets affected when the profile is applied by my Colorvision Spyder2 software.

photog_1 wrote in post #7871593
Lightroom and Photoshop are "color-managed aware" applications. I'm not sure about Picasa; however, zoom browser may only be showing the JPEG (thumbnail) embedded in the RAW file. If you have Adobe98 color space set, it may not render the thumbnails properly.

Even on the Mac, you need to select the proper monitor color profile for DPP

I am not displaying the raw file in anything other than Lightroom. ZB, Picasa and the others are all showing the same JPEG file as produced from Lightroom, at its full 800x533 resolution. I do now have Adobe RGB set within the camera, but this image was shot raw with sRGB set in camera. However, as I only shoot raw I leave it up to Lightroom (or DPP when I use it) to correctly convert to the chosen colour space and assign the colour space accordingly. According to the EXIF for the JPEG produced from Lightroom it appears that the colour space assignment is being performed correctly. I have to assume that the data is also being output within the assigned colour space.

EDIT : I've attached the two versions of the JPEG file output from Lightroom - the first is output in the Adobe RGB 1998 colour space and the second is in the sRGB colour space.

I'm using IE8 as my browser and, while both versions of the file look the same, both also have that horrible "browness" to the grass that is quite simply wrong.

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tdodd wrote in post #7873646
It makes no sense to me why you have to specify your monitor profile within DPP, but the field is present to supply the calibration file and supposedly you should provide the file name. Since every other app - Explorer, Word etc. etc gets affected by the profile I do not understand why DPP needs it specified,

Because Canon doesn't know how to program?

In the OSX version you still need to enter it manually. Supposedly there's a "use OS profile" or something like that in the windows version.

On the OP's problem: I think Picasa isn't color managed & zoombrowser also needs to be told to color manage in the prefs...

René Damkot wrote in post #7873767
Because Canon doesn't know how to program?

This is something I don't understand. The OS "owns" and "runs" the monitor profile and it gets to decide how to massage colours/tones so that they are displayed correctly. What need is there for any special programming by Canon, Adobe or anyone else to fiddle about with respect to monitor profiles? If an input RGB value of 128,128,128 should be displayed as 130, 128, 125 according to the monitor profile, for example, then surely the OS and video card take care of that. That colour correction should be applied by the OS to all apps, even the desktop wallpaper (which it is). What business is it of image processing software to choose to ignore that profile or to otherwise have any programming to screw around with the displayed colours?

Now colour space management is quite a different thing from the monitor profile, as that addresses the issue of the image data having different meanings dependent on colour space in use. That has nothing that I can see to do with the monitor profile, which is simply there to colour correct the monitor. I can't see why the apps should care two hoots about the monitor profile. It's nothing to do with them.


Even if not colour managed, why would ZB and Picasa, and now IE8, all be getting it wrong with the sRGB version of the JPEG?

I don't know whether IE8 is colour managed or not, but if not, I do not understand why the Adobe RGB and sRGB versions of the JPEG look identical within IE8. Something is not adding up here but I cannot figure out why things aren't working properly.

HAH! Interesting - I just enabled use of my monitor profile in ZB (Why is this not on by default?) (Why is there even an option at all?) and the colours immediately corrected themselves. Both the Adobe RGB and sRGB files look correct. But that's fixing the monitor profile in use, not applying colour space management.

So I'm one step closer to a better working environment, but if IE is still wrong, and Picasa then I'm still not where I need to be - Christ, if my browser can't display sRGB images correctly how am I going to get anywhere on a forum like this? Confused

Both of those attached images look fine to me.

tim wrote in post #7873937
Both of those attached images look fine to me.

Which browser and OS? I assume you do have a monitor profile assigned. Does the grass look a strong, rich green, or a sort of muddy green?

In Photoshop CS4. They look the same in CS4 as in Firefox, which is set up with color management turned on, and a calibrated monitor. I'm fully color managed, and I understand how things work.

tim wrote in post #7873959
I'm fully color managed, and I understand how things work.

I don't doubt that

I'm trying to understand why my non colour managed IE8 is displaying the sRGB and Adobe RGB files identically (and wrongly). Surely it should get the sRGB file correct and the Adobe RGB file wrong.

I really don't want to have to install Firefox simply in order to get sRGB images looking correct. That should not be necessary. However, as part of my testing/resolution it seems I shall be forced to install FF. Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

EDIT : As for Picasa, I just stumbled across this thread - http://www.google.com …id=260db05ea52d​53da&hl=en - so that's the end of Picasa for me.

OK, Firefox installed and colour management enabled, et voila - correct colours in my browser....

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tdodd wrote in post #7873992
I'm trying to understand why my non colour managed IE8 is displaying the sRGB and Adobe RGB files identically (and wrongly). Surely it should get the sRGB file correct and the Adobe RGB file wrong.

I *suppose* that it's "half color managed" then, like Windows Picture and Fax viewer on XP used to be (as far as I know): It reads and uses the document profile, but assumes sRGB for monitor. So you're seeing the difference between your monitor profile and sRGB...
(I think, in that case, if you convert an sRGB image to your monitor profile (stays (about) the same color), then *assign* sRGB (oversaturating it), then save as "test.jpg", that "test.jpg" should appear identical in the browser as the not "messed about with" original does in PS. This is just a test, not a good idea for use )

Color management consists of two parts: One is reading the embedded profile of an image, the second is using the correct monitor profile. Both are needed to ensure correct colors.

Link

IE7 and firefox look the same to me, on my PC. I don't know anything about IE at all.