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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 09 May 2009 (Saturday) 05:47
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5DMKII vs. 40D

 
sf_loft
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May 09, 2009 05:47 |  #1

Well today I just received my 5DMKII and just got around to playing with it really late at night. It's 2am and I took quick photos of my home office and compared it with my 40D. Both shots were taken with a 16-35 f/2.8L II USM lens at f/2.8, ISO 100, and 16mm on the same tripod. I will take some photos outdoors tomorrow and see how it performs. I think I'll need to buy a thin filter for my wide angle because you really notice the vignetting. Also notice how much more the camera opens up compared to my 40D.

Canon 40D f/2.8 16mm ISO 100
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IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3305/3514381501_9ddef507cd.jpg

Canon 5D Mark II f/2.8 16mm ISO 100
---
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twofruitz
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May 09, 2009 06:09 |  #2

Regardless of the photo; you have a great looking study area!

Oh, and I previously made the change from the 40d (up to the 5dmkII) and love the extra DOF.


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Ianfp
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May 09, 2009 06:50 |  #3

I noticed the vignetting when I went full frame. You can apply in-camera correction or correct it in DPP. Ian


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The ­ Moose
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May 09, 2009 07:03 |  #4

I've always read about how the extra mm's at the ultra wide end matter so much more than at longer FL's and this has shown me how true that is. Massive difference.

Have fun with the 5D2 mate.




  
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zincozinco
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May 09, 2009 07:19 |  #5

very tidy!!


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May 09, 2009 10:57 |  #6

twofruitz wrote in post #7887368 (external link)
Regardless of the photo; you have a great looking study area!

Oh, and I previously made the change from the 40d (up to the 5dmkII) and love the extra DOF.

i didnt know you can get extra DOF (depth of field) on a 5D2. or are you talking about the Field of View?


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Nightstalker
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May 09, 2009 11:33 |  #7

DOF is more pronounced at longer focal lengths so given the same framing DOF is reduced in a full frame as DOF is based on actual focal length and not effective focal length.

So comparing Crop Vs FF - to get the same framing as a 50mm lens on a 1.6 crop such as a 40D will require an 80mm on a full frame. DOF at 80mm will be less than the DOF at 50mm even though the composition is identical.

At least, this is how it was explained to me.


  
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AdamLewis
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May 09, 2009 13:01 |  #8

The vignetting is from the lens. It does that. Youll notice that a lot of pictures vignette now when they didnt used to.


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Wilt
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May 09, 2009 13:18 |  #9

Nightstalker wrote in post #7888399 (external link)
DOF is more pronounced at longer focal lengths so given the same framing DOF is reduced in a full frame as DOF is based on actual focal length and not effective focal length.

'effective focal length' is a concept that only pertains to the Angle of View (or Field of View) which is captured into a frame, and only when a person needs to express it in the context of 135/FF (which fewer and fewer photographers have any experience with, when the buy their first dSLR!) DOF is not altered by 'effective' anything, only the actual FL matters in DOF calculations (as well as the factors of format size, shooting distance, f/stop used, the assumed 8x10 print viewed at 'standard viewing distance')

Nightstalker wrote in post #7888399 (external link)
So comparing Crop Vs FF - to get the same framing as a 50mm lens on a 1.6 crop such as a 40D will require an 80mm on a full frame. DOF at 80mm will be less than the DOF at 50mm even though the composition is identical.

At least, this is how it was explained to me.

Yes DOF is always less with larger formats. (Yes, APS-C is a different format than FF, they simply happen to share lenses)...

If you leave the shooting position unchanged and you use a FL appropriate to the format (to achieve equivalent FOV), there is a decrease in DOF with the larger format.
(example APS-C 31mm f/4 10' distance, DOF = 4.1' deep; FF 50mm f/4 10' distance, DOF = 2.4' deep)

If you leave the shooting position unchanged, and you use the same lens on both APS-C and FF bodies, there is an increase in DOF with the larger format, but the Field of View is very different.
(example APS-C 50mm f/4 10' distanced, DOF = 1.5' deep; FF 50mm f/4 10' distance, DOF = 2.4' deep)


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basroil
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May 09, 2009 14:32 |  #10

jeromego wrote in post #7888270 (external link)
i didnt know you can get extra DOF (depth of field) on a 5D2. or are you talking about the Field of View?

5dMKII will have larger DOF at 100% than a 40d at 100% given the same lens and aperture. Most likely he did mean field of view though.

Nightstalker wrote in post #7888399 (external link)
DOF is more pronounced at longer focal lengths so given the same framing DOF is reduced in a full frame as DOF is based on actual focal length and not effective focal length.

So comparing Crop Vs FF - to get the same framing as a 50mm lens on a 1.6 crop such as a 40D will require an 80mm on a full frame. DOF at 80mm will be less than the DOF at 50mm even though the composition is identical.

At least, this is how it was explained to me.

That was the half-assed way of explaining it. DOF in terms of film is a function of focal length and aperture only. When you look at the film with a 10x glass it doesn't matter if it was aps or standard 35mm, the amount in focus will be the same. The framing is usually different though, so for the same framing the smaller sensors will generally have smaller focal lengths, and DOF increases.

Now, if you look at 100%, pixel density does come into play. The difference between 5dmkii and 40d isn't that pronounced, but back in the day of the 5d vs 30d, it was huge. The higher the pixel density, the smaller your DOF is at 100%. Why? Simply because DOF is based on the same principles as diffraction, the only reason why something looks just as sharp is because you aren't resolving enough of the image to notice the difference. With 30d, you had nearly twice the resolution, so you would lose a proportional chunk of the DOF compared to 5d with same focal length and aperture. In some cases, the difference would be large enough that at 100% the FF sensor actually had an advantage over the aps-c sensor even with a longer focal length on the FF sensor (5d vs 50d will definately show this). Most people don't consider these effects, but they do exist in the realm of pixel peeping, which has become more and more popular as high density SLR systems get into more hands (which often have no real photographic experience, and have no clue about the limitations of the camera systems).

EDIT:

AdamLewis wrote in post #7888769 (external link)
The vignetting is from the lens. It does that. Youll notice that a lot of pictures vignette now when they didnt used to.

Mechanical vignetting also happens, and it is a big problem. On a 16-35 with FF you can get mechanical vignetting from filters, which is why slim filters exist. OP seems to know a bit about this difference between mechanical and lens vignetting, hence only talked about 16-35 rather than the other two lenses that generally don't need slim filters.


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sf_loft
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May 09, 2009 21:50 |  #11

Took a quick pic outside during a light hike. Love this camera and Love my lenses.

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Super-Nicko
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May 09, 2009 22:04 |  #12

awww mate your gonna love your new toy...it makes you wonder what you were doing wasting your time with 1.6x bodies... :)

have fun!

nice demo of 16crop vs 16FF too - amazes you seeing the difference...


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jmtron
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May 10, 2009 00:11 |  #13

Seems like there's a bit of confusion regarding DOF field here. Generally speaking, smaller sensor cameras will give you more depth of field, not less (but not always!). Here's a good article (external link) that explains this.


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basroil
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May 10, 2009 08:49 |  #14

jmtron wrote in post #7891423 (external link)
Seems like there's a bit of confusion regarding DOF field here. Generally speaking, smaller sensor cameras will give you more depth of field, not less (but not always!). Here's a good article (external link) that explains this.

Do note that that pertains only to "printed" images at same field of views. By printed, i mean images that are the same size regardless of original density, like comparing 5dmkii and 40d both at fit to screen. When we get closer to the image, 5x, 10x, 20x, then the "rules" fall apart as the image becomes resolution limited.


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JelleVerherstraeten
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May 10, 2009 08:52 |  #15

I'm also looking to upgrade my 40D to a 5D2, but I think I gonna buy some glass first, before I make a upgrade...


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5DMKII vs. 40D
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