Canon 50D and 5D MK II for birding

Does anyone have information on the relative merits of the 50D and 5D2 for bird photography? I would be interested in information on things like image noise when using higher higher ISO speeds and performance of the autofocus system with respect to one being better than the other.

Mate, ask your question on the birding forum: http://birdphotographe​rs.net/forums/index.ph​p

OR

ask your question of the bird in flight expert: http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/

I have difficulty choosing which of this and that I enjoy most

They are both great!

Well the 5D is a full frame camera so you will need a longer lens to get the same exxeftive view you will out of the 50d
Out of those 2 I would vote for the 50 d
I use a 40d but they say the best for birding is the 1dmkIII
Cheers

Luvntravln wrote in post #7996025
Mate, ask your question on the birding forum: http://birdphotographe​rs.net/forums/index.ph​p

OR

ask your question of the bird in flight expert: http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/

I have difficulty choosing which of this and that I enjoy most

They are both great!

I considered using the birding forum, but figured that its main purpose was for photo sharing while this sub-forum was intended to talk about birding issues and equipment. On the other hand, I do not think that the talk forums have caught on very well. I recall some early 5D2 discussions about it not being especially good for nature photography, but I do not recall any good explanation of that thought.

BigStig wrote in post #7997037
Well the 5D is a full frame camera so you will need a longer lens to get the same exxeftive view you will out of the 50d
Out of those 2 I would vote for the 50 d
I use a 40d but they say the best for birding is the 1dmkIII
Cheers

A 1D Mark III would be nice without a doubt. The 40D and 50D are both popular, but I do not hear much about the 5D2.

50D all the way. Hands down.

Between the two the 5D2 would excel by far and away is in noise control. The full frame and large files would allow a decent cropping but the 1.6x and large files of the 50D maybe be better. Personally I use my 40D before the 50D for birds images, I perfer the cleaner noise at higher ISO's.

Artie Morris would tell you he uses a 1D3 and a 50D and is very happy with both, however he shoots primarily in Florida where a high ISO is hitting 400.

That is were I start from, I don't think I have ever had an image shot below that point but the light is much different in the Pacific Northwest than in the sub-tropical SE.

If you are looking at a 5D2, for just a few hundred more you can get a 1D3 and be vey very happy.

Look at Adorama refurbs, they are as new, literally no difference except a shorter warranty (90 days) and a white box. But everything is there and is certainly brand new like battery, charger, software etc. for all of $2,999.99. One of the best bargains out there now IMO.

Incredible AF, great frame rate if you need it and you want high ISO performance? How aboutt this at ISO 2500:

Brad, thanks for the great detailed reply. Based on the 50D images that I have seen, I was not overly impressed by the noise -- I think that Canon put more emphasis on number of image pixels at the expense of noise performance at higher ISO speeds.

Since you mentioned the deal on refurbished 1D3 cameras, I am now even more in a quandary.

Bill Boehme wrote in post #8004415
Brad, thanks for the great detailed reply. Based on the 50D images that I have seen, I was not overly impressed by the noise -- I think that Canon put more emphasis on number of image pixels at the expense of noise performance at higher ISO speeds.

Since you mentioned the deal on refurbished 1D3 cameras, I am now even more in a quandary.

If you can, get a 40D instead. Not much improvement over the 50D. MarkIII is the best. ISO1600 is completely usable with little or no noise reduction needed. There are people, who believe that a higher MP body like the 5dmarkII, which would allow more cropping. it can make up over the crop factor. The way I see it is that you should crop as little as possible. Why would I even want to crop unless I don't have the reach. If I have the reach, I don't need to crop. Besides that but if shooting FF hinders the body's ability to focuse because the subject does not fill up the frame as much, you got no shots at all given with all the MP you have...
Although FF is nice for other kinds of photography, I don't think it is desirable for wild life and bird photographies. See if you can get an used 1dmarkII or 1dmarkIIn. Should be only a little bit more expensive than a 40D and 50D.

While I don't own a 5D MII, I do own a 5D classic and photographed birds for over two years with it attached to the 100-400L. The image quality of the 5D(no doubt the M2 is even better) is amazing and noise is very well controlled but it was the slow burst(3.9) and focus response that was causing me to miss too many action shots. I picked up a 1D MII used with 9,000 clicks for 1K and it is perfect for birding. I hope a Mark III is in my future but for now the Mark II is great, nice match for the 500L.

Bill it's a tough call, each have there own pluses and minuses,.
IMHO if birding is your intention, both 5D and 50D (and 40D for that matter) are second choices behind the 1 Series AF system which is the ingredient that sets it apart as the Birding body (particularly IF birds in flight is your forte)

Everyone elses seems to have answered the question as best it can be answered already IMHO.. 1D would be best,

Luvntravln wrote in post #7996025
Mate, ask your question on the birding forum: http://birdphotographe​rs.net/forums/index.ph​p

OR

ask your question of the bird in flight expert: http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/

I have difficulty choosing which of this and that I enjoy most

They are both great!

I am sure your intentions were good in this reply, but as the local glee club for POTN I have to take personal umbrage to the basis of your reply..
1st, POTN has a number of fabulous birders quite capable of answering Bill's question, one need not go elsewhere to get an informed reply to his question..
that said, yes there are other forums with many knowledgeable birders,. add Naturescapes.net to your list.

As to the second part, here is where you've really drawn me to reply,
Arty Morris is indeed one of the great bird photographers of our time, he has in a crowded field managed to stand out as unique, and this is due to his excellent work. He is a genius! He is not however, THE authority on Birds in flight as your reply would have it. Arty himself would tell you that he is not the best at flight photography, in fact he would likely list a number of names, including Jim Nieger, a regular contributor here at POTN, as the "authorities" on Birds in flight. Jim literally wrote the book on it and teaches classes in it..

O-kay, sorry to come off strong, but again, there are of course dozens of excellent sources for answers to Bill's simple question.. but do not assume that POTN is not one of the best sources. Why tell anyone to walk to another lake to drink when he asked the question at the lake in which you are standing?

If your birds are sitting down on a branch get the 5DII, if they are moving and fast get the 50D, 6.3fps really does help nail that 1 shot of a BIF. I certainly have no qualms about using it at ISO800, some go further...

That is a nice shot.

I apoligize for the delay in responding. I have been out of town for the past four days.

TooManyShots wrote in post #8007792
If you can, get a 40D instead. Not much improvement over the 50D. MarkIII is the best. ISO1600 is completely usable with little or no noise reduction needed. There are people, who believe that a higher MP body like the 5dmarkII, which would allow more cropping. it can make up over the crop factor. The way I see it is that you should crop as little as possible. Why would I even want to crop unless I don't have the reach. If I have the reach, I don't need to crop. Besides that but if shooting FF hinders the body's ability to focuse because the subject does not fill up the frame as much, you got no shots at all given with all the MP you have...
Although FF is nice for other kinds of photography, I don't think it is desirable for wild life and bird photographies. See if you can get an used 1dmarkII or 1dmarkIIn. Should be only a little bit more expensive than a 40D and 50D.

Thanks, TMS. It will take a while to weigh all of the options.

Nighthound wrote in post #8012772
While I don't own a 5D MII, I do own a 5D classic and photographed birds for over two years with it attached to the 100-400L. The image quality of the 5D(no doubt the M2 is even better) is amazing and noise is very well controlled but it was the slow burst(3.9) and focus response that was causing me to miss too many action shots. I picked up a 1D MII used with 9,000 clicks for 1K and it is perfect for birding. I hope a Mark III is in my future but for now the Mark II is great, nice match for the 500L.

Thanks, Nighthound. I have heard before that focus on the 5D is slower than other cameras.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #8014045
Bill it's a tough call, each have there own pluses and minuses,.
IMHO if birding is your intention, both 5D and 50D (and 40D for that matter) are second choices behind the 1 Series AF system which is the ingredient that sets it apart as the Birding body (particularly IF birds in flight is your forte)

Everyone elses seems to have answered the question as best it can be answered already IMHO.. 1D would be best,


I am sure your intentions were good in this reply, but as the local glee club for POTN I have to take personal umbrage to the basis of your reply..
1st, POTN has a number of fabulous birders quite capable of answering Bill's question, one need not go elsewhere to get an informed reply to his question..
that said, yes there are other forums with many knowledgeable birders,. add Naturescapes.net to your list.

As to the second part, here is where you've really drawn me to reply,
Arty Morris is indeed one of the great bird photographers of our time, he has in a crowded field managed to stand out as unique, and this is due to his excellent work. He is a genius! He is not however, THE authority on Birds in flight as your reply would have it. Arty himself would tell you that he is not the best at flight photography, in fact he would likely list a number of names, including Jim Nieger, a regular contributor here at POTN, as the "authorities" on Birds in flight. Jim literally wrote the book on it and teaches classes in it..

O-kay, sorry to come off strong, but again, there are of course dozens of excellent sources for answers to Bill's simple question.. but do not assume that POTN is not one of the best sources. Why tell anyone to walk to another lake to drink when he asked the question at the lake in which you are standing?

Jake, thanks for your suggestions and comments. I have received a lot of valuable information here.

Neilyb wrote in post #8017148
If your birds are sitting down on a branch get the 5DII, if they are moving and fast get the 50D, 6.3fps really does help nail that 1 shot of a BIF. I certainly have no qualms about using it at ISO800, some go further...

Thanks, Neil.

artyman wrote in post #8017195
That is a nice shot.

I agree, Ken. I guess that the 50D is back on my "list".

Neilyb wrote in post #8017148
If your birds are sitting down on a branch get the 5DII, if they are moving and fast get the 50D, 6.3fps really does help nail that 1 shot of a BIF. I certainly have no qualms about using it at ISO800, some go further...

How do you deal with the noise at iso 800, I can't seem to find a balance in NR and Sharpness over iso 400