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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Weddings & Other Family Events 
Thread started 30 May 2009 (Saturday) 09:20
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Shooting in "M" mode

 
WilliamL
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May 30, 2009 09:20 |  #1

I'm not sure I'm asking this correctly or not but---

If I set my Canon 40D to "M" and the ISO to 400-- f8 @125... would my flash (canon 580ex) figure out the amount of flash needed or am I totally off base?

This has been on my mind now for some time ... I'm going to be shooting my cousins wedding next weekend and even thro I'm shooting it for free I still want my work to been the best I can do... but I would like to step out of my safe box and try to get better..

Thanks for any input ....

wm


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jamestyemk
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May 30, 2009 09:58 |  #2

WilliamL wrote in post #8016993 (external link)
I'm not sure I'm asking this correctly or not but---

If I set my Canon 40D to "M" and the ISO to 400-- f8 @125... would my flash (canon 580ex) figure out the amount of flash needed or am I totally off base?

This has been on my mind now for some time ... I'm going to be shooting my cousins wedding next weekend and even thro I'm shooting it for free I still want my work to been the best I can do... but I would like to step out of my safe box and try to get better..

Thanks for any input ....

wm

I did that on my 5D few months back for a relative's wedding. Yes, 580EX set to ETTL will auto compute the flash output. I had the Gary diffuser on and was bouncing the flash throughout.

My shutter speed was, however set to 1/80 or 1/60 to catch the ambience. Depending on the location, higher speed may darken out the background too much.

Try it.




  
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WilliamL
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May 30, 2009 10:16 |  #3

Thanks James... I will and I'll lower my speed to around 1/60... I'll let you know how it turns out next weekend...


7D * 40D/w 24-70 L * 20D*17-85 mm*Canon 100-400L IS *Canon 70-300mm*580EX
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. Albert Einstein

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Nicole ­ Faith
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May 30, 2009 14:45 |  #4

Yes. The M mode on the camera can be used separate from the "M mode" on your flash.


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ootsk
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May 31, 2009 12:37 |  #5

If you're asking this question, I'm thinking you're not too familiar with how the ettl works.
ETTL will try to accurately expose, but there's a point that it won't/might not have enough power based on your camera ssettings and distance to subject.
Did you pick those settins for just this basic question, or are you planning on using those all the time?




  
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tdodd
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May 31, 2009 14:27 |  #6

I shoot with manual exposure a lot at weddings, and other times, and the settings you have proposed would not be what I would typically use, either indoors or out. Take the following examples....

Outdoors on a sunny day : Consider a standard "Sunny 16 (external link)" as a guideline exposure of f/16, 100 ISO, 1/100. Your settings of f/8 (2 stops brighter than f/16), 400 ISO (2 stops brighter than 100 ISO), 1/125 (1/3 stop dimmer than 1/100) would overexpose the scene by 3.7 stops even without the flash. In fact you would need really quite poor lighting outdoors for those settings to be viable. Assuming you want to use flash for fill and you do not want to use high speed sync then for sunny conditions you would need an exposure for the ambient of around 100 ISO, 1/250, f/10. Any brighter would blow the background, and possibly (parts of) the subject. Of course, if you use HSS then you can open up the aperture, perhaps from f/10 to f/4 (2.7 stops) to isolate the subject a little from the background, and then happily increase shutter speed from 1/250 to 1/1,600 (2.7 stops).

In a church or registry office : Since conditions can vary so much I can only go by example settings I have used, when flash has not been allowed. Examples are....
- 800 ISO, f/2.8, 1/80 (that's 4.7 stops brighter than your original settings);
- 3200 ISO, f/2.8, 1/60 (that's 7 stops brighter than your original settings);
- 800 ISO, f/3.5, 1/60 (that's 4.3 stops brighter than your original settings).
Even with flash, you would need to bounce it to light up the room or you would end up with a very dark background. The flash would have to work hard and may overheat or suffer longer recharge times or simply be quite annoying for guests and officials.

Evening/reception : Again lighting varies but based on my typical settings, intended to preserve good exposure of the ambient/background I'd use something like....
1600 ISO, f/2.8, 1/60 + bounced flash (that's 6 stops brighter than your original settings);
3200 ISO, f/3.5, 1/60 + bounced flash (that's 6.3 stops brighter than your original settings).
Once again, unless your flash is doing magic (magic is possible but the room must cooperate) at lighting up the room you will end up with a very dark background. If the room is sympathetic to bouncing you may be lucky. If not you may be in trouble.

By and large I'd say that wedding togs do not invest in f/2.8 zooms and even faster primes so that they can spend all day at f/8. f/8 is not the answer, IMHO. You need to balance ambient and flash exposures to good effect and that means working both your manual settings and FEC as the conditions and environment change.




  
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phr0ze
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Jun 03, 2009 13:02 |  #7

For reception with flash I start with ISO 800 or 1600, 1/60th, f5.6

Things to me are just too variable to shoot f2.8. I think a lot of shots could be missed because of the 2.8, even more so if you are capturing 2 or 3 people.


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MikeES
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Jun 03, 2009 13:11 |  #8

This will work for the subject, if he/she/they/it is in close enough range for the flash, but it may not properly expose the background...shutter speed and iso may need to be adjusted (as well as aperature if needed) to properly expose what's behind the subject since the ettl meters for the subject only...if I'm not mistaken...


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tdodd
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Jun 03, 2009 13:24 |  #9

I find f/2.8 works well enough for me on a 1.6X crop body. This was with my 50D and 70-200/2.8 IS at 70mm, 1/60, f/2.8, 1600 ISO. Bouncing was very problematic as the room had virtually no ceiling, but I did what I could.

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Here's the room....

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Here's another from a different wedding. This time 30D + 17-55 at 31mm, 1/60, f/2.8, 1600 ISO, bounced flash. I find it important to preserve the ambience of the room and that means an exposure that does not rely heavily on the flash...

IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/png' | Byte size: ZERO


1/60, f/2.8, 1600 ISO + bounced flash are my "go to" settings for the evening. Of course, I may vary that sometimes, but they are a good rule of thumb setting.



  
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Shooting in "M" mode
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