Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
Thread started 28 Apr 2005 (Thursday) 09:02
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

Large Format Photography

 
epeace
Member
Avatar
126 posts
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Miami Beach
     
Apr 28, 2005 09:02 |  #1

I know this is the Canon DP forum . . . . but being that many of the members here are experienced photogs (even if amateur) I thought I might poke and see how many know much about large format photography . . . .

I just picked up a Toyo-View 4x5 View camera a couple weeks ago . . this thing is way cool . . . i particularly like the perspective correction and selective focus abilities . . just cant do that with 35mm . . i plan on doing a great deal of architecture/interior photography so i have to learn this thing inside and out . . .

tonight ill be sussing out how this 550 Polaroid film pack holder i just got today works with the camera . . . heheh

sitting here in the office looking at it i have no earthly clue . . . .


/ // epeace / / /
www.ezrapeacephotograp​hy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Todd ­ Jacobsen
Senior Member
704 posts
Joined Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
     
Apr 28, 2005 09:15 |  #2

Amazing how a tilt/shift lens seems much easier...


Todd Jacobsen
---------------
20D / Rebel T2

EF : 28 f1.8/ 50 f1.4/ 50 f2.5 Macro/ 85 f1.8/ 20-35 f3.5-4.5 USM
EF-L: 16-35 f2.8/ 24-70 f2.8/ 70-200 IS f2.8 / 100-400 IS f4.5 / 180 f3.5 Macro
EF-S: 10-22 f3.5-4.5 USM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Digital ­ Prophet
Senior Member
538 posts
Joined Apr 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
     
Apr 28, 2005 09:30 |  #3

Congrats to you on making the leap. I am personally moving into medium format and I love it too. One day I will hopefully make the leap to large format. But that is a ways off.

As for the tilt/shift I don't think that it is any easier per se. But one this is for sure, you could NEVER get the detailed enlargements from a small format camera that you can get from a large format. That and there is really something ... artistic about using a camera that is entirely mechanical and manual.

- Digital Prophet -


Canon 300D, Canon 5D and some glass and some stuff.
"Your cooking makes me question my faith." - Bucky Katt

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Cream of the Crop, R.I.P.
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2611
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Apr 28, 2005 09:46 |  #4

Have fun with it!
The first suggestion for your architecture/interior photography is that you get a 1-2' carpenters level & make sure that the back of the cam (film plane) is straight up & down. No, you may not always want that, but for architecture/interior photography , it's the best place to start to keep the buildings & walls straight.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
epeace
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
126 posts
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Miami Beach
     
Apr 28, 2005 09:57 as a reply to  @ PhotosGuy's post |  #5

PhotosGuy wrote:
Have fun with it!
The first suggestion for your architecture/interior photography is that you get a 1-2' carpenters level & make sure that the back of the cam (film plane) is straight up & down. No, you may not always want that, but for architecture/interior photography , it's the best place to start to keep the buildings & walls straight.

this thing actually has those little level thingys on the rear standard. . my tripod also has them so . . that seems to be covered :)


/ // epeace / / /
www.ezrapeacephotograp​hy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
rdenney
Rick "who is not suited for any one title" Denney
2,400 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Jun 2003
     
Apr 28, 2005 12:00 |  #6

epeace wrote:
sitting here in the office looking at it i have no earthly clue . . . .

There are two principles that will inform nearly every decision you make with a large-format camera:

Perspective correction: If the film back is vertical, there will be no vertical perspective convergence. Using shifts or combinations of shifts and tilts, move the lens sideways with respect to the vertical film back to get the composition you want. But eliminating vertical perspective starts with a vertical film back.

Scheimpflug Effect: The planes that include the film back, lens board, and plane of sharp focus all intersect. When the film back and lens board are parallel, that intersection is at infinity and the plane of sharp focus will intersection there, too (which means it will be parallel to the lens board and film back). But if the lens board and film back are tilted with respect to each other such that their planes intersect, the plane of sharp focus will intersect along the same line.

Thus, if you want a picture of a forest, with the leaves on the forest floor all in focus, then start with a vertical film back (to keep the trees vertical without perspective convergence). Then, note where the film back plane intersects the ground. This will be right under the camera at ground level. Tilt the lens board so that it lines up with that point. Voila! The ground will be sharply focused at all apertures. Then stop down to get the tops of the trees in focus.

The trick is deciding where the plane of sharp focus needs to be. I once photographed a tree stump with the front of a mission chapel as the background. I wanted the chapel bell tower to be sharp, and I wanted the tree trunk to be sharp. The problem was that the tree trunk was about two feet in front of the camera, and the chapel was about 150 feet away. No depth of field will ever accommodate that. So, I imagined a plane between the chapel tower and the stump, and if that plane was a wall, it would have extended from two feet to the right of the camera, with the camera lookingg basically down the length of it. I tilted the lens to the right so it pointed to the intersection of the film plane and that "wall", and the chapel was sharp along with the center of the stump. The only thing in the picture not in focus was a root at lower left projecting from the stump, and I cropped that off.

Get a 10X loupe (a cheapie plastic one will do fine, and cover everything but the lens with black photographic tape. Use is to view your ground glass to check focus.

Use the open corners of your ground glass to check for lens coverage. If, looking through the open corner through the lens, you see anything but the diaphragm blades, the lens is beyond its movement capabilities and needs to be backed off. It's much easier to see it that way than by looking for vignetting on a fresnel ground glass.

Get a good focusing cloth. It needs to be opaque. Velcro around the lens board will help keep it in place.

Don't forget a lens shade.

Keep a notebook and be rigorous about how you metered the scene and your exposures and focusing strategy. That's the only way you'll be able to do a post-mortem if something goes wrong. Mark your film backs rigorously and make sure your notes are descriptive enough to match negative to notes.

Everything else is just a matter of practice.

Rick "Cambo 4x5 with regular and bag bellows; 47, 65, 90 and 121 Super Angulons, 160 Geronar, and 210 Ilex Paragon; Pentax and Minolta spot meters; compendium shade; 6x9 rollfilm back; Peak loupe; home-made focus cloth; and no desire to do the necessary darkroom work" Denney


The List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
epeace
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
126 posts
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Miami Beach
     
Apr 28, 2005 13:06 |  #7

wow . . great response . . especially the bit about the chapel and tree stump . . .

i bought a binocular viewing housing (external link)that attaches to the film back thats sort of like a viewfinder . . it flips the image in the ground glass right side up by reflecting it off a mirror inside . . i havent received it yet . . its en route . . that would eliminate the need for the focusing cloth right? and the loupe . . ill know better once i get it on the camera which is at home . .

this polaroid film holder (external link)is bigger than i was expecting (but i dont know jack about it so.. ) . . its a 550 . . . the guy who sold it to me says its supposed to work with my camera (external link) . . . i guess ill have to just sit down with it and read the manual . . . i have no idea how the film holders attach to the camera (polaroid or otherwise) . . . i thougth they slipped into the back which is hinged . . . but looking at this polaroid holder . . i dont think thats the case . . .


/ // epeace / / /
www.ezrapeacephotograp​hy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
epeace
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
126 posts
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Miami Beach
     
Apr 28, 2005 13:09 |  #8

ps. i bought a loupe just now anyway . . . why not . . it was $5 . . . :P


/ // epeace / / /
www.ezrapeacephotograp​hy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
robertwgross
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,462 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Nov 2002
Location: California
     
Apr 28, 2005 13:50 as a reply to  @ epeace's post |  #9

epeace wrote:
this thing actually has those little level thingys on the rear standard. . my tripod also has them so . . that seems to be covered :)

Yes, my tripod has the little ones also, and they are nowhere nearly as accurate as a carpenter's level.

However, a carpenter's level is too heavy for many people to carry far. I do photo-backpacking, so excess weight is a no-no. I made the compromise with a six-inch plastic carpenter's level.

---Bob Gross---




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
rdenney
Rick "who is not suited for any one title" Denney
2,400 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Jun 2003
     
Apr 28, 2005 15:16 as a reply to  @ epeace's post |  #10

epeace wrote:
wow . . great response . . especially the bit about the chapel and tree stump . . .

i bought a binocular viewing housing (external link)that attaches to the film back thats sort of like a viewfinder . . it flips the image in the ground glass right side up by reflecting it off a mirror inside . . i havent received it yet . . its en route . . that would eliminate the need for the focusing cloth right? and the loupe . . ill know better once i get it on the camera which is at home . .

this polaroid film holder (external link)is bigger than i was expecting (but i dont know jack about it so.. ) . . its a 550 . . . the guy who sold it to me says its supposed to work with my camera (external link) . . . i guess ill have to just sit down with it and read the manual . . . i have no idea how the film holders attach to the camera (polaroid or otherwise) . . . i thougth they slipped into the back which is hinged . . . but looking at this polaroid holder . . i dont think thats the case . . .

I think you'll find that a binocular viewer will not be convenient if you use a lot of movements. A loupe and a focusing cloth is much easier. The view helps for architectural shots when the camera is jammed into an interior making access to the ground glass difficult. I don't have one and have never missed it.

Backs attach in two ways. The ground glass is usually in a frame that is held to another frame with two arms that are sprung to keep it tight. That other frame is held to the back of the camera with two sliding clips. The sliding clips are called a "Graflok" back because they were first introduced by the Graflex company. Roll film holders and other accessories are often designed for a Graflok connection. The Polaroid back is designed to slip under the ground glass the same as a film holder. Both slide right under the ground glass from one edge.

Rick "who thinks you'll need a changing bag for loading film holders if you don't have a darkroom" Denney


The List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
rdenney
Rick "who is not suited for any one title" Denney
2,400 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Jun 2003
     
Apr 28, 2005 17:15 as a reply to  @ post 521758 |  #11

Bloo Dog wrote:
One of the basic concepts of perspective is that parallel lines appear to converge as they travel away from the viewer.

If the back is vertical, then vertical lines do not travel away from the viewer. Hence, they do not converge. If the film back is vertical, there will be no perspective convergance of vertical lines in the scene. At least, with rectilinear lenses, heh, heh.

If we look up, the lines at the top converge. If we look down, the lines at the bottom converge. If we look straight at the building, the lines will appear not to converge, because we can't do that and see up or down enough to notice any convergance. That's the effect rectilinear lenses convey, though it is not really natural with extremely short lenses. But I still love those extreme wides.

Rick "who thought that's what he said" Denney


The List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
epeace
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
126 posts
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Miami Beach
     
May 02, 2005 22:50 as a reply to  @ rdenney's post |  #12

dunno . . . i got the monocular viewer today and its awesome . . without it the image being upside down was, well, a bit obnoxious . . and i will be doing alot of architecture/interior work with it so . . i guess it all works out . .

i found, later that day, that the holder slid right in like any other holder . . it was just alot thicker . . i wasnt aware that the back would open that wide . . but i love the polaroid holder . . closest thing to the instant gratification of digital ill get for the time being . . lord knows i wont be dropping money on a Phase One anytime soon . . .

so if i have the little slide locks on the back (and the viewer) that means its graflok compatible then?


/ // epeace / / /
www.ezrapeacephotograp​hy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DocFrankenstein
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
12,324 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Apr 2004
Location: where the buffalo roam
     
May 02, 2005 23:15 |  #13

I would love a 4*5 camera... with all the tilts and shifts and...

But I need a darkroom first... and this is where reality kicks in ;)


National Sarcasm Society. Like we need your support.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
soupdragon
Account removed at users request
963 posts
Joined Apr 2005
     
May 03, 2005 05:25 as a reply to  @ post 529363 |  #14
bannedPermanent ban

I have a really nice minolta flash meter with spot attachment that I used to use on my MPP MKVII.

These are really handy when once you have calibrated them to your ground glass you can meter straight off the image.
I don't use it these days so if you want to buy one you know who to talk to.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Cream of the Crop, R.I.P.
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2611
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
May 03, 2005 07:16 |  #15

Do you know about the slide for the film holders? One side of the metal tab is black & one side is silver? So you know if the film is exposed?


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

5,694 views & 0 likes for this thread, 11 members have posted to it.
Large Format Photography
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is semonsters
1711 guests, 140 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.