Could I bug someone for some composition tips please?

Hi all, I went down to the lake this afternoon mainly to get some shots of birds, but noticed the color on these trees and the sky behind and it blew me away. The sun had just touched the horizon.
I wanted to get some nice shots, and whilst I think I captured the colors as they were, I can't figure out how to compose it nicely. Composition has always been the biggest hassle I have had.

There are three trees in a line along the water which I'd like to form some kind of "thing" with, but I just couldn't work it out I tried to get the trees down the left side of shot, but then all I had was bland water on the right side. On the other hand, the background here pretty much sucks anyway with all the homes and barbeque huts.

If you could be so kind to assist me on how to get a better picture in this spot next time it would be muchly appreciated!

One thing, I am basically standing on the waterline at 17mm in these shots..... and it is winter!

Don't forget, pick the shots to pieces, they are basically straight out of the cam and not cropped or modded, and underexposed?

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first is great! seconds pretty good too. I would have angled more towards the water than the houses though, waters is always more pleasant to look at

nice colors - I might shoot up the first tree and try to avoid the house/shelter back ground
get much closer to the tree and shoot up at the trunk and branches with the same light and sky (good luck) and it could be very dramatic

Heres a tip that really helped me.

Everything in the frame is either helping support the overall image or its hurting it. Theres never anything in between.

The advice is always check the full frame and make sure that everything thats in the image is helping that image. If not, try and find a way to remove it.

Since you already seem to know that the structures in the background are distracting my only picky issue is the horizon in # 2. I would definetely work on trying to keep those straight, but then it's a quick fix, keep up the good work.

Did you use a polarizer lens for the shots? Sky looks fantastic!

I might stand on the opposite side of the tree from the sun, using the tree to block the sun. The tree would turn out really dark or just black, outlined by the sun/sunset. Maybe frame it vertically so you get just one tree isolated in the frame. Maybe horizontally with a couple trees in the frame.

Tshaw: Yeah, I just didn't know what to do here. I knew it looked too nice not to try a shot, I just couldn't work out how to compose it. That's why I posted both to show what I was working with.

Marcy: Funny you mention shooting up the tree, I did take one of those too. I really needed to get wider, but I'm limited by the 17mm and the water being so close.....and my skills in positioning! Here is the "up tree" shot. In hindsight I should have prob got closer an looked more vertically up, just another thing to try next time I guess. I also had a play with B+W for the first time too on this one, not sure if it works or not, but anyhow, i'll throw it up for some C&C

airfrogusmc: Yes I have read that many times, problem is in my head I knew what I wanted (kind of) I was trying for the trees along the left side of the shot and the shoreline and water on the right, and whilst I agree that water is 10000% nicer than homes etc, it really is just so bland so I wanted to remove an excess of water and have just the trees and shoreline, but if I zoomed in I found I was cutting stuff out I wanted in........

PirateScott: Yeah I noticed the horizon, and I do forget about it a lot, which annoys me as I then have to add yet another thing in PP to "make them good." As I mentioned these are straight out of the cam purely to show you guys of what I had to work with. I knew the exposure was close enough to work (still learning with manual), the color is there, I just couldn't sus how to compose it.

BioSpark: nope, no filter, and with my daggy old 17-85 kit lens. The sky was pretty special that afternoon with scattered clouds all around, the sun was about 5 minutes from hitting the horizon which is right down near water level.....(no mountains etc) It's also fairly common for us to get these wicked wine red skys after the sun has gone down. I took a shot years ago and it looks fake it's SOO red.

lewdog: mmm, that sounds interesting, thanks for the tip. I'll give that a go next time too. I was going down last few nights but have been held up doing other stuff. It's only down the road though, so I'll be back to try and nail something next time.

Edit: Wow, these 2 shots must have a lot of stuff in them that made it hard to get to 150K even at the small sizes. They are down to level 5 in PS in compression at only 800 high, sorry about the horribleness of these.....

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This is the sort of sunsets we get around here every now and again and was the one I was refering to in my last post.

I took this a few years back with a 20D and a 28-80 EF and in Jpg as it was before I knew of the advantages of RAW. I had to do a quick and rough crop just then, as when I looked at it I noticed the horizon was right in the middle, which I am led to believe is not what you "do" ?

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Color for this one for me, very nice shots

I like both of the tree shots - great potential - your sunsets are to die for if they are like that on a regular basis

Referring to the second fpic in the original post: Is there any way you can move to the left of that line of trees then get them leading the eye to some good sky/water in the background?

The first 2 have very interesting trees. But the houses are distracting to me...especially since they are distorted. The low angle sun light is great. (If possible) I would have moved back, used a longer focal length, held the camera more level (to reduce distortion), and shot the trees vertically to try and isolate them from the rest of the scene.