Group Portrait Lens

I'm looking at getting one of the following, Tamron 17-50, Canon 17-55 IS, or the Canon 17-40 for group portraits. I'm more concerned with sharpness than price. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

I would say Canon 24mm f/1.4....in my opinion this is the perfect lens for group shots...if u cant afford this lens then i would say go ahead and buy the 24-70mm f/2.8

p.s.i own a 24-70 and i love it but i am thinking about getting the 24mm prime too

On a 50D, I would rather have the 17-55IS (if money is not an issue). My second choice would be the tammy 17-50, followed by the 17-40. I'm a zoom kind of guy, as I just like having the flexibility to change framing with the twist of a wrist.

if price is not a matter, then the 17-55 all the way.

...another vote for the 17-55!

My vote goes to the 17-40mm. very sharp and wide.

I did a large group shot a few weeks ago where 28mm on the 5D (17mm equiv fov on a crop sensor) was not wide enough. It was a large group and I wanted people away from the edges which would distort and have lesser than acceptable quality.

I have since bought the 17-40.

Your 18-55 stopped down far enough to get everyone in focus will be just as good as the others, IMO. Save your money.

17=55 f2.8 IS is perfect for this, but just stop down the 18-55 IS to f8 for a group to keep everyone within DOF and it will be very sharp.

I had been thinking about getting another lens just for group shots. After looking at a bunch of options, I am thinking about one of the zeiss ZK lenses. If you plan on using a tripod, and using liveview for focusing, this might be a possibility. They make several wide angle lenses that might work. In group shots, I always look for as much resolution as I can get. Especially after spending so much time arranging everyone.

Check out Zeiss Lenses. Keep in mind though, they are manual focus, and stopped down metering, which would limit their usefulness for other things.

Just a thought.

jrscls wrote in post #8089247
17=55 f2.8 IS is perfect for this, but just stop down the 18-55 IS to f8 for a group to keep everyone within DOF and it will be very sharp.

True, but make sure you shoot no wider than 24mm or so to avoid the really bad distortion on the wide end of the 18-55.

Google It

Do a Google search on how to arrange your subjects for group shots so you can use a longer focal length lens and avoid the natural distortion of shooting a group with an UWA lens.

Here are a series of thoughts. I have not shot a group for years and I am trying to recall everything I did.

Your first problem is how to get the people assembled in a group for the photo.

Obviously a single row of subjects will stretch from here to eternity.

Multiple rows can be a problem because the front row is closer to the lens than the rear row and will loom larger.

Additionally multiple rows can be difficult because you need the back rows elevated to prevent the front rows from blocking them.

Some solutions are:

1. It is great to have an elevated platform, such as a stage, on which to pose the rear one or two rows.

2. It is even nicer to have a staggered elevated platform, such as a wide staircase, on which you can pose several rows with each successive row bring higher than the row in front.

3. Another solution is to have the back row standing, the middle row seated on a bench or series of chairs and the front row kneeling. Whether you want to use the kneeling row depends upon whom you are shooting and if they would regard kneeling for a photo as demeaning. It is easier for men - especially younger men - to be in the kneeling row. Obviously a group such as a portrait of the Supreme Court Justices would not be appropriate in a kneeling set-up.

One way to reduce the amount of space required by a standing row of persons is not to have then stand so their shoulders are at right angles to the lens. Rather, have the center person stand with shoulders at right angles and the persons in the row on either side of the center person standing at an angle (45 degrees or so). This considerably reduces the length of any row.

Another problem is the distortion caused by some of the group being considerably closer to the lens than others. This is a double problem:

1. Front row being closer to camera than rear row

2. Subjects in center of rows being closer to the camera than those on the edges of the rows.

The natural distortion is exaggerated when you use wide angle lenses to shoot the group. If possible, use a longer focal length. Ideally, an equivalent 50mm or more would be ideal but, this requires a considerable distance from camera to subjects. Anyway, I would not want to shoot at a much wider focal length than 35mm on a full frame camera.

There are two other ways to reduce the distortion caused by uneven camera to subject distance.

1. Shoot from a high angle. This tends to equalize the camera-subject distance for the front to rear rows. I don't like extreme high angles when all you can really see of the subjects is their faces but, sometimes with extremely large groups; that is the only option.

2. Arrange your rows in a slightly concave configuration. This somewhat equalizes the camera-subject distance between the center-most and end-most persons in the group.

A ladder is a great help in shooting groups. If you have a tall enough ladder, it is often handy to attach a tripod head to the top step of the ladder. Tripod heads can usually be attached using 3/8" or 1/4" bolts.

Using tripod head mounted camera/lens, you can frame your group. Once the group is framed, you no longer need to view the group through the viewfinder. You can watch the group and ensure that there are no problems such as persons looking away, eyes closed or even some joker making finger horns behind another persons head. Using a cable release makes this even easier.

Lighting:

With the great high ISO capability of the present generation EOS camera, there is no reason why you cannot shoot at ISO 400 and still get fine results. This will get you an extra stop or so in exposure.

As with the distortion caused by some subjects being closer to the camera than others, there may be exposure problems for the same reason.

Lighting from a high angle will tend to equalize the camera-subject distance between the various rows .

You don't need creative lighting. What you need is a broad area of even lighting. You may be better off if you do away with modifiers and shoot direct flash. This should also give you a couple of stops extra. Bouncing off the ceiling would only be efficient if the ceiling will reflect enough light and that light reflected would not be colored.

Additionally, it always looks better in a formal portrait if the persons in each individual row have their hands the same way. As an example - the seated row may have their hands clasped in their laps. I used to like the persons to the camera right having their left hands clasped over their right hands with the persons camera left having right hands over left. The same goes for the standing row or rows.

It is almost essential to have ONE assistant helping you pose the persons and to ensure that there are no problems with the poses. This person should be aware of how you plan to pose the group The assistant should also help in making sure that there are not any problems such as eyes closed and finger horns.

By the way, you do need to plan in advance. Additionally looking over the shooting area and possibly using a flash meter to balance out exposure might also be a big help.

Finally:
Be prepared to shoot fairly quickly - folks get edgy when held in a pose. So make sure that your flash batteries are fresh or, if you are using A/C studio flash; make sure all lights have been set up and are plugged in and that sync is set. Communicate with the subjects but, don't be bossy. Communication skills are extremely important when working with groups.

Shoot multiple images. You can often restore a group portrait by substituting the faces in Photoshop if one or two persons have their eyes closed or have some other silly dufus look.

Fantastic advice!

What if this was outdoors and it was sunny, how should the group be orientated in relation to the sun? Should direct flash be used as to fill the shadows in the group?

Tokina 11-16 f/2.8

Really.

I've shot several groups of 100 or so and found I needed 11mm to fit them all in. The Tokina is nice & sharp too so you can zoom in an play "Where's Waldo".

I did a group shot this spring of about 120 people, using my 1D and 11-16 at 13mm. That works out to 10.5mm on the 50D. I was not able to fit everyone in.

For big groups, I stand on a ladder so I can see all the faces.

tmalone893 wrote in post #8083732
I'm looking at getting one of the following, Tamron 17-50, Canon 17-55 IS, or the Canon 17-40 for group portraits. I'm more concerned with sharpness than price. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

you'll be stopped down for a group shot. results should be nearly identical from these three lenses.

ed rader