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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 10 Jun 2009 (Wednesday) 13:37
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How to avoid shadows under the chin

 
ralliart_04
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Jun 10, 2009 13:37 |  #1

i have been taking pictures of people during events (weddings) however, i find that my shots are subject to harsh shadows under the chin particularly on low light situations. I am using a sigma 530 Super with sto-fen omni bounce. the flash head is at 60 degree angle or 70 degree angle and not directly towards the people.

Is there something that I am doing wrong? Please help and any suggestions would be great.


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superdiver
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Jun 10, 2009 13:39 |  #2

take pictures of only fat ppl who have no space for shadows under chin...

just an idea, and a non PC one at that, sorry if anyone was offended...lol


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cappy1927
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Jun 10, 2009 14:08 as a reply to  @ superdiver's post |  #3

Try taking the diffuser off the flash and directing the flash to the right or left wall of the subject. I am assuming you are bouncing off the ceiling overhead.




  
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shutterfiend
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Jun 10, 2009 14:22 |  #4

If you didn't find superdiver's suggestion very helpful you could try the following

The first thing you could try is pointing the flash directly upwards. It's not very efficient but it'll get rid of the shadows.

You could try attaching a index card with a rubber band (external link)and shoot at 45-60 degree angle, this will throw some light forward.

You could try buying or building a ring flash adapter.

The next step would be getting your flash off-camera.


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ralliart_04
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Jun 10, 2009 14:44 |  #5

shutterfiend wrote in post #8085250 (external link)
If you didn't find superdiver's suggestion very helpful you could try the following

The first thing you could try is pointing the flash directly upwards. It's not very efficient but it'll get rid of the shadows.

You could try attaching a index card with a rubber band (external link)and shoot at 45-60 degree angle, this will throw some light forward.

You could try buying or building a ring flash adapter.

The next step would be getting your flash off-camera.

so basically, I should not have placed my diffuser and a "bounce" card together? Maybe this has caused too much light to spill to the subject...

The venue where I tried the diffuser and bounce card on the flash has a dark ceiling and not much walls. This is the reason why I tried the combination. I will try to remove the diffuser next time and put a bounce card.

Thanks for all the responses. if you have anything more in mind, keep them coming. I am really learning a lot.


Canon 6D/ 7D2 / 50 F1.4 / 70-200 F2.8L IS II / / 135L / Fuji X-T1 / Fuji 23 F1.4 ; Flashes: 2 x Yongnuo 600
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Wilt
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Jun 10, 2009 15:24 |  #6

Can you post some examples of the problem, and is there also an overall shot which shows the setting so we can better understand the conditions?

The way the Stoffen ought to work (principle, not marketing hype of the company) is that lots of light goes out in a 3/4 sphere, some bouncing off ceiling and walls, some going forward to the subject directly. As the bounce loses power (not 100% efficient) and has a bit farther to travel (by about 1.4x) the forward component should fill in the neck shadows and eye sockets nicely.

Bounce cards work on the same principle...the upward component and the forward component. The result with the bounce card might (or not) alter the distribution of light slightly, compared to the Stoffen. Lumiquest Omnibounce is designed to let the photographer control the relative distribution, rather than it being a fixed ratio.

With a dark ceiling and no walls, any light sent upward is going to be wasted, and this is true of any modifier that permits light to go upward or out to the sides --which is why I use a small sofbox when no ceiling/no walls.


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ralliart_04
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Jun 10, 2009 15:51 |  #7

Here is an example however, this is not a low light situation however, i used the same set up on the flash with the stofen but without bounce card. Do you think I should have stepped back (maybe 10 feet away to get to a distance where the light is spread out)?

IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3403270610_e4307f6e40_m.jpg

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Wilt
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Jun 10, 2009 16:03 |  #8

ralliart_04 wrote in post #8085805 (external link)
Here is an example however, this is not a low light situation however, i used the same set up on the flash with the stofen but without bounce card. Do you think I should have stepped back (maybe 10 feet away to get to a distance where the light is spread out)?

QUOTED IMAGE

'spread out' has to do with coverage angle, nothing to do inherently with 'size of source' Sun is huge, but to us is a 'small source'; clouds in front of the sun turn it into a 'large source' (no shadows in heavy overcast!)

You can clearly determine a 'forward and slightly down' direction of the light causing the shadow. That is the direct component of light coming from the few square inches of Stoffen as seen from subject viewpoint. Shadow penumbra (edge) is relatively hard, echoing the example that I posted in another thread where there is little apparent size increase in the source. No surprise, I would not have expected more out of that thing in those conditions.


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ralliart_04
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Jun 10, 2009 19:13 |  #9

in this case, what should be done to minimize, soften hard shadows? direct flash with softbox or less flash exposure compensation? Maybe a larger bounce card?


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gonzogolf
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Jun 10, 2009 21:46 |  #10

ralliart_04 wrote in post #8086721 (external link)
in this case, what should be done to minimize, soften hard shadows? direct flash with softbox or less flash exposure compensation? Maybe a larger bounce card?

Both will be better than what you have, but you may not get the full relief you are looking for with modifiers small enough to be mounted on the camera or a small bracket. I have the wescot micro apollo softbox and it helps a little but not as much as I would like.




  
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Wilt
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Jun 10, 2009 21:57 |  #11

ralliart_04 wrote in post #8086721 (external link)
in this case, what should be done to minimize, soften hard shadows? direct flash with softbox or less flash exposure compensation? Maybe a larger bounce card?

Something which makes the apparent size of the light source larger


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SkipD
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Jun 10, 2009 22:02 |  #12

Wilt wrote in post #8087581 (external link)
Something which makes the apparent size of the light source larger

I'd like to add one word - significantly - in front of Wilt's "larger". Making the apparent source size only 25% larger won't do much to soften the shadows, but making the apparent source size 300% to 500% larger (still a practical thing to do), for example, would go a long way toward softening the shadows.

You could even have an assistant hold a 2-foot by 3-foot (or larger)white reflector (a card or fabric on a frame) at your side and you then aim the bare flash at the card. The reflector needs to be held at the correct angle, of course, but that would really go a long way toward providing a more pleasing lighting situation.


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superdiver
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Jun 11, 2009 12:32 |  #13

what about a flash bracket adapter mount thingy that puts the flash below the camera and slightly angles the flash upwards??

If this is a stupid idea, plz disregard since I have little to no experience with using flash...


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gonzogolf
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Jun 11, 2009 12:45 |  #14

superdiver wrote in post #8090934 (external link)
what about a flash bracket adapter mount thingy that puts the flash below the camera and slightly angles the flash upwards??

If this is a stupid idea, plz disregard since I have little to no experience with using flash...


That would get rid of the shadow under the chin, unfortunately it would throw them upward behind the subject onto nearby walls.




  
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david ­ lee
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Jun 11, 2009 13:13 |  #15

What about using lastolite reflector low down to give an uplight under the chin?


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