SLR vs P&S

I like the feeling holding an SLR in my hands, It is reasonably heavy, feels solid, and the sound of the shutter is so sweet. But...
Everything points that DSLRs are doomed, and will disappear sooner than we expect.
The mirror, mechanical shutter, optical viewdinder just have no chance against an LCD or similar viewfinder, and elecronic shutter.
LCD brightness does not depend on the lens apperture, it can contain useful information, it is possible to magnify a part of the view fnally making manual focus something to consider. The only limiting factor for LCD is resolution but it came so close to the level after which a human eye cannot recognize separate pixels.
The limiting factor for an electronic shutter is the speed the image can be read from the sensor but the potential here is huge, unlike mechanical shutter that did not imporve much in the latest 30 years.

Apparently the cameras soon resemble somehow advanced rear lens caps, and will cost not much more.

I guess I will miss the mirror/shutter sound

I recently cashed in some airmiles and got a Rebel XS. This was my first DSLR (Great camera, btw). I have an Elan II which had been gathering dust for about 5 years after I discovered the convenience and economy of digital point and shoots (A70 and then an SD600).

I do like the IQ from the bigger sensor of the XS and I can now use my old EF lenses and flash (50mm/1.8 Mk 1, 28 - 105 and 380EX). But I have to admit that having to squint through an optical viewfinder again is a bit of a drag. It is so much more convenient to shoot with the LCD of a point and shoot. The live view of the XS is way too slow. IMO, Canon will lose a lot of business to Sony's new A330, which has a very fast focusing live view (But in order to jam in the additional live view sensor, the Sony optical viewfinder shrinks to a measly .74 x magnification which is bordering on useless in my opinion).

I think that Olympus is on the right track with the EP-1 design. I would like to see Canon do something similar. Keep the EF and EF-S compatibility and at least the APS-C sized sensor for IQ. Get rid of the optical viewfinder, mirror box and mechanical shutter in order to simplify the design, reduce size and save costs. And put in fast, fast, fast auto focus through a good sized LCD. That would be a winner in my book. Perhaps it could be the next generation G series (bigger sensor, interchangeable EF/EF-s lenses and useable live-view)

BTW, in all canon point and shoots, you can turn on a feature to make the shutter sound for you.

The SLR format isn't going anywhere for a long long time.

cdifoto wrote in post #8131101
The SLR format isn't going anywhere for a long long time.

I agree. SLR's have their advantages and certainly a lot of photographers like to shoot using an SLR. But, not everybody aspires or can afford to buy an EOS 1Ds. I think there is a huge market for those who like being able to shoot using a live-view LCD. If you can add better IQ with interchangable lenses and a larger sensor/processor, I'll bet that Canon would sell a lot of those.

To me this would be comparable to developing the digital equivalent to a higher end 35 mm rangefinder (eg Leica M). No mirror slap or vibration, just a silent click. And there are advantages to shooting with both your eyes open with the ability to see all of your surroundings as you shoot. And unless you buy the high end DSLR, it is nice to have the 100% view of the LCD compared to 95% of the budget DSLR's optical viewfinder.

vadim_c wrote in post #8130891
I like the feeling holding an SLR in my hands, It is reasonably heavy, feels solid, and the sound of the shutter is so sweet. But...
Everything points that DSLRs are doomed, and will disappear sooner than we expect.
The mirror, mechanical shutter, optical viewdinder just have no chance against an LCD or similar viewfinder, and elecronic shutter.
LCD brightness does not depend on the lens apperture, it can contain useful information, it is possible to magnify a part of the view fnally making manual focus something to consider. The only limiting factor for LCD is resoluting but it came so close to the level after which a human eye cannot recognize separate pixels.
The limiting factor for an electronic shutter is the speed the image can be read from the sensor but the potential here is huge, unlike mechanical shutter that did not imporve much in the latest 30 years.

Apparently the cameras soon resemble somehow advanced rear lens caps, and will cost not much more.

I guess I will miss the mirror/shutter sound

Have you not noticed how many people are carrying DSLR's They all moved UP from P&S because the prices of DSLR's have come down at the entry level and amateurs are dipping a toe in the water. Once wet, there's no going back!

i think even with the live view on the modern SLR's there is nothing
better than actually viewing your subject through the lens.

I would hold off on the SLR eulogy until someone actually makes an EVF that does not completely suck. A decent means of auto focussing that does not use partial mirrors will also have be be invented.

And if that ever happens, then nobody will miss the SLR because it means that the EVF will have to be completely indisinguishable (or better) from looking at a piece of ground glass.

JeffreyG wrote in post #8131294
I would hold off on the SLR eulogy until someone actually makes an EVF that does not completely suck. A decent means of auto focussing that does not use partial mirrors will also have be be invented.

And if that ever happens, then nobody will miss the SLR because it means that the EVF will have to be completely indisinguishable (or better) from looking at a piece of ground glass.

It is already there. The latest Nikon and Canon LCDs provide enough resolution for being called better than looking 'at a piece of ground glass' .

It not shaped as a viewfinder but I admit it is very easy to do so.

vadim_c wrote in post #8132356
It is already there. The latest Nikon and Canon LCDs provide enough resolution for being called better than looking 'at a piece of ground glass' .

It not shaped as a viewfinder but I admit it is very easy to do so.

They may be sharp but they still don't refresh quickly enough for fast-action shooting.

There's plenty of room for SLRs and Point & Shoots. No need to force a "vs" on everyone.

vadim_c wrote in post #8130891
I like the feeling holding an SLR in my hands, It is reasonably heavy, feels solid, and the sound of the shutter is so sweet. But...
Everything points that DSLRs are doomed, and will disappear sooner than we expect.
The mirror, mechanical shutter, optical viewdinder just have no chance against an LCD or similar viewfinder, and elecronic shutter.
LCD brightness does not depend on the lens apperture, it can contain useful information, it is possible to magnify a part of the view fnally making manual focus something to consider. The only limiting factor for LCD is resolution but it came so close to the level after which a human eye cannot recognize separate pixels.
The limiting factor for an electronic shutter is the speed the image can be read from the sensor but the potential here is huge, unlike mechanical shutter that did not imporve much in the latest 30 years.

Apparently the cameras soon resemble somehow advanced rear lens caps, and will cost not much more.

I guess I will miss the mirror/shutter sound

Optics viewfiner is a major advantage of SLR. Current EVFs don't even compare in color, contrast, refresh rate, resolution. The thing is that if you are looking through viewfinder in camera like the XT, then you may be disappointed because of its size. Try to take a look throught 5Ds, or even 50D, I highly doubt you can find a EVF that is as good

I actually enjoy using the viewfinder on my XS to take pictures after years and years of p&s cameras. Before the XS I had a Panasonic Lumix FZ8 and the electronic view finder on it was painful to use. I'm sure they are much better now, but I still prefer looking through the actual glass.

I still have a p&s that I use when I want some snapshots and taking the XS just isn't convenient or for capturing quick candid videos.

The panasonic G1 comes very close to what you are talking about above. It is supposed to have a very nice EVF and is VERY small. Canon really does have an opportunity here, they should consider a body that has EVF, liveview, and works with EF lenses. AS the OP said, I would like it to be very small basically just big enough to cup my hand around.

We will see

vadim_c wrote in post #8132356
It is already there. The latest Nikon and Canon LCDs provide enough resolution for being called better than looking 'at a piece of ground glass' .

It not shaped as a viewfinder but I admit it is very easy to do so.

I think your standards for a good EVF are much, much lower than most SLR users. It goes way past resolution.

The EVF needs to update instantly for me to use it to shoot sports.
The EVF needs to be able to display the full dynamic range of the scene.

Also, you still have not talked about any solution to the issue of auto focus. You are not going to get any SLR users to give them up for some wunderkind EVF camera that has the same auto focus speed as current P&S cameras.

The ability for the contrast detect AF sensors to look through the mirror which then moves out of the way of the shot is a critical difference between SLR cameras and everything else. This is why we are a decade into the digital P&S era and the focus systems suck just as much today as they did at first.

Until the camera makers solve the above issues there is no reason to expect the SLR market to even decrease let alone fold.

funpig wrote in post #8131136
To me this would be comparable to developing the digital equivalent to a higher end 35 mm rangefinder (eg Leica M). No mirror slap or vibration, just a silent click. And there are advantages to shooting with both your eyes open with the ability to see all of your surroundings as you shoot. And unless you buy the high end DSLR, it is nice to have the 100% view of the LCD compared to 95% of the budget DSLR's optical viewfinder.

I don't know about Canon but Olympus just did it... Uses the same sensor as their DSLR's
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1​/EP1A.HTM

And the amazingly small size (see link below) certainly changes everything; currently this sort of technology doesn't compete well with DSLR's, but someday it just might...
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1​/ZBEAUTY-17.JPG

CJinAustin wrote in post #8134247
I don't know about Canon but Olympus just did it... Uses the same sensor as their DSLR's
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1​/EP1A.HTM

And the amazingly small size (see link below) certainly changes everything; currently this sort of technology doesn't compete well with DSLR's, but someday it just might...
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1​/ZBEAUTY-17.JPG

And an awkward silence falls upon the crowd...

This camera is gonna be a HOT item I think