Say yes? or pass? Help me forum gods!

Please help me decide on this gig! I'm on the fence as to signing up for it or passing it off to another photog. As for experience, I'm probably considered an advanced hobbyist. I've been taking pics for about 4 years, with the last two on an SLR. I was recommended for this based on some bands I shot in action over the past year for my own experience and satisfaction.

The gig (my first official one, actually):
I've been contacted by a community organization (on recommendation from a close friend) to take photos at an upcoming "battle of the bands" competition. The event will consist of 5 hours of local youth bands playing, with the scope of the photog to capture "professional style" shots of the bands playing and misc. promo headshots of the winners for the clients advertising.

After negotiating with the client over hourly price or a per picture usage fee, his final offer is:
- Being the exclusive event photographer (promoted through their advertising at the show, before and after)
- Receiving no pay, and all pictures will be supplied to the client, post processed, with an unlimited use licence.
- Being the recommended photographer for band promo shoots before the event, if the band wants additional pictures (I can charge what I want for a promo shot of a band... but they can go elsewhere as I'm only recommended)
- Exclusive rights to sell prints and photo merchandise of the event via my own methods (I'm thinking prints on InstaProofs, my own pricing, and fulfilling the orders myself)

Overall, the only way to cover my cost is if I can get a few bands in for some discounted promo sessions a few weeks prior to the event (being the recommended photog), and then just rely on print sales from advertising immediately afterwards. I don't have huge experience, so I'm not sure how that will pay off.

My impression is to let this opportunity pass by, as I have other things I could do with the time especially considering no guarantee of compensation. It seems like a volunteer and be recognized gig, more than a paid gig. Thoughts, opinions, recommendations? Should I, shouldn't I?

Super huge thanks!

Side note: I'm sorry for the novel... I've been lurking for a year and saved up all my posts for this one.

If you're good at marketing, have a boatload of business cards to hand out with a site setup to sell the images from with a lab attached and ready to go, Go for it. If not - pass, set that all up and try again.

Do it, sounds like fun ...if you aren't a working photog-I like this word better than professional photog; which can be misleading and a bit insulting even if one doesn't draw his or her full income off of photog yet does professional work- then the financial compensation isn't a factor and it'd be great for your portfolio.

Great if you got some print sales, too, and had more potential for extra work.

It's not really working for free but working for experience and to get more work, in future. Think of it as a "working advertisement" if that makes sense. Truthfully these are perhaps more valuable than the 150$ an hour I would charge for something like this..exclusive rights; that's pretty something right there.

I suggest not worrying about the cost and just going out and having fun, getting your feet wet and your legs muddy. See who you meet...maybe someone can open more doors for you. Everytime I go somewhere and do something for free I end up meeting 1 or 2 people that say "hey could you do this for me...whats your hourly rate?" "Could you print this shot of that for me in this size?"

I am not a pro, hardly an amateur... but this statement would be an issue for me

Post processing takes ALOT of time. So you're gonna spend much more than just 5 hours on this gig.

AND unlimited use, with zero compensation... ??

I mean, I know it's kids bands and all... but that client obviously knows what he's asking for and getting for FREE. He's not "offering" much at all with his 'final offer.'

2 things about that "unlimited use license":
1. At the very least, I'd add that a photo credit is required every time a photo is used, no matter the media. (And be sure to hold them to it.)
2. Add that they are not allowed to sell the photos. (For this job, this is your only source of direct income. You don't want them selling packages to the bands. They may not be planning to, but if you don't state that they can't, they might.)

I do agree that the experience will be good to have. And the contacts made (lots of parents at these types of things) might prove very valuable, and I'd imagine print sales would be decent.

Good luck!!

Teeth-

The real catch is that you they want you to provide pictures to the event organizer for zero compensation and assume all business risk. No reasonable person would ever agree to that unless it was offset by actual revenue from the bands. I would offer them the pictures for your fee-$500 minus any revenue. So when you generate $500 of revenue, the client get the images for $0. This is the only way to prevent the client from providing the pictures to the bands for free.

Otherwise, tell them they can find another sucker.
-Scott

Teeth wrote in post #8243326
Please help me decide on this gig! I'm on the fence as to signing up for it or passing it off to another photog. As for experience, I'm probably considered an advanced hobbyist. I've been taking pics for about 4 years, with the last two on an SLR. I was recommended for this based on some bands I shot in action over the past year for my own experience and satisfaction.

The gig (my first official one, actually):
I've been contacted by a community organization (on recommendation from a close friend) to take photos at an upcoming "battle of the bands" competition. The event will consist of 5 hours of local youth bands playing, with the scope of the photog to capture "professional style" shots of the bands playing and misc. promo headshots of the winners for the clients advertising.

After negotiating with the client over hourly price or a per picture usage fee, his final offer is:
- Being the exclusive event photographer (promoted through their advertising at the show, before and after)
- Receiving no pay, and all pictures will be supplied to the client, post processed, with an unlimited use license.
- Being the recommended photographer for band promo shoots before the event, if the band wants additional pictures (I can charge what I want for a promo shot of a band... but they can go elsewhere as I'm only recommended)
- Exclusive rights to sell prints and photo merchandise of the event via my own methods (I'm thinking prints on InstaProofs, my own pricing, and fulfilling the orders myself)

Overall, the only way to cover my cost is if I can get a few bands in for some discounted promo sessions a few weeks prior to the event (being the recommended photog), and then just rely on print sales from advertising immediately afterwards. I don't have huge experience, so I'm not sure how that will pay off.

My impression is to let this opportunity pass by, as I have other things I could do with the time especially considering no guarantee of compensation. It seems like a volunteer and be recognized gig, more than a paid gig. Thoughts, opinions, recommendations? Should I, shouldn't I?

Super huge thanks!

If you've ever worked with bands you'll know that many of them are:

• local youth bands are BROKE!

• probably not getting paid for this gig.

• will have friends with cameras taking pics

sspellman wrote in post #8244866
Teeth-
tell them they can find another sucker.
-Scott

WELL SAID, Scott!


For every band, there's a "fanboy" (cough...sucker) willing to give them gratis photos, lol.

Teeth wrote in post #8243326
Please help me decide on this gig! I'm on the fence as to signing up for it or passing it off to another photog. As for experience, I'm probably considered an advanced hobbyist. I've been taking pics for about 4 years, with the last two on an SLR. I was recommended for this based on some bands I shot in action over the past year for my own experience and satisfaction.

The gig (my first official one, actually):
I've been contacted by a community organization (on recommendation from a close friend) to take photos at an upcoming "battle of the bands" competition. The event will consist of 5 hours of local youth bands playing, with the scope of the photog to capture "professional style" shots of the bands playing and misc. promo headshots of the winners for the clients advertising.

After negotiating with the client over hourly price or a per picture usage fee, his final offer is:
- Being the exclusive event photographer (promoted through their advertising at the show, before and after)
- Receiving no pay, and all pictures will be supplied to the client, post processed, with an unlimited use licence.

This right here is enough to pass. They want you for free. They want an unlimited license, to boot. Basically, they want to use you.

Wow, thanks for the replies everyone!

I have to agree with Concretin amd sspellman; I would like to have even just a base fee offset against revenue (to cover gas/batteries/a burger for lunch), but they wont budge. The client wants it all + processing for next to nothing. Additionally, I've clarified with him this morning that although the images will be unlimited use, I will have sole rights to sales (of prints), and I will have a photo credit for "the majority of images used" (his words).

My main problem is the post processing: I could half-ass it and batch process everything but I like to take pride in my work and focus on making each picture a damn fine picture. I'm also now doubting any talent I have to make that fee out of bands and parents purchasing prints or sessions (I used to play in one of these bands and I know how broke you can get).

Really what it comes down to: Paying out of my pocket for experience, and hoping it pays back with new contacts and opportunities.

Me = Still on the fence for now... I'll let the comments digest for a bit.

If he won't budge, I'd say to pass then.

It's so sickening how many people out there who think that we photographers should accept NO FEE for our services we provide.

Here, watch this: http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

If photographers keep accepting jobs for nothing, then nothing will ever change.

I would pass too. You would be shooting on spec and trying to sell to kids with no money and friends with cameras. As for credit lines, big deal! Nobody reads them anyway!

Teeth wrote in post #8245129
Wow, thanks for the replies everyone!

I have to agree with Concretin amd sspellman; I would like to have even just a base fee offset against revenue (to cover gas/batteries/a burger for lunch), but they wont budge. The client wants it all + processing for next to nothing. Additionally, I've clarified with him this morning that although the images will be unlimited use, I will have sole rights to sales (of prints), and I will have a photo credit for "the majority of images used" (his words).

My main problem is the post processing: I could half-ass it and batch process everything but I like to take pride in my work and focus on making each picture a damn fine picture. I'm also now doubting any talent I have to make that fee out of bands and parents purchasing prints or sessions (I used to play in one of these bands and I know how broke you can get).

Really what it comes down to: Paying out of my pocket for experience, and hoping it pays back with new contacts and opportunities.

Me = Still on the fence for now... I'll let the comments digest for a bit.

If you take this 'job' you are a sucker. This isn't a job, this is just some jackass that wants you to work for him for free. There are a billion different bands that you could photograph by yourself for free if you're looking for experience in band photography. Hell, unless tickets are sold with terms, you could probably just show up and shoot the band by yourself and then market the photos. It's not like you're shooting Coldplay here -- there are a jillion wannabe garagebands out there, and access isn't exactly hard to get.

noxcuses1 wrote in post #8245173
If photographers keep accepting jobs for nothing, then nothing will ever change.

I fully agree, and I've heard that before and have seen the video. That's always been sticking in the back of my head telling me not to go through with it for free.

I've contacted the client and outlined the issues of why I could not perform the service. He was accepting of my argument, but still didn't budge... so I'm definitely out now, and not regretting it. Heck, as mentioned, I can always keep going to my choice of shows, for my satisfaction and self development and have a good time doing it (and keep the rights to my photos).

Thanks for all your help!

Scott,

As already stated he is looking for a freebee. You love music and no doubt love shooting the bands, I get it. I am the same way with many subjects, some will never pan out financially. BUT, I rarely give away shots for others to profit from and in your instance here is why. Lets say that you do the gig and low and behold one of the bands gets picked up by a name label. Then they start to tour, larger and larger venues. You suddenly remember that you have those early shots and want to sell them for publication, then you run into they other guy who just gave them away to a hunderd different rags for nuthin - you my young paddywhack are hosed.

No doubt two things will occur, you will take the gig under those horrible rules, or another sucker will, but he will be the only one to prosper. Now, lets say you give a verbal agreement to him and decide to hose him instead and not give him a single usable image, and keep them for your self. He has no leg to stand on without a written contract, and here is why I feel that way. He cannot have an enforecable contract without giving you a tangible form of payment and expect the same from you.

OOPs I just saw that you stuck by your guns and declined the gig, good for you. I guess your handle rings truth, you do have teeth!! Now contact each band individually, and set up shoots, make them sign contracts and get at least token payments, yes I know that bands are poor. I am not in favor of hosing fellow creatives, BUT the promoter, eff um.

To me promoters are just legal pimps, they make money off of others talent.

LBaldwin wrote in post #8245507
Now contact each band individually, and set up shoots...

Yep.

And Yep.

Cut the kids/parents a break with the photography. Not the jerk promoter.