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Thread started 08 Jul 2009 (Wednesday) 18:57
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Short review of 5D II, and a question or two....

 
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Jul 08, 2009 18:57 |  #1

At the beginning of May I finally took delivery of the 5D Mk II I ordered aeons ago, at least, that is how it feels. Sold a bunch of lenses and a 40D to get there, but I figured it was worthwhile, based on the pictures I saw here, there and everywhere taken with this camera. Based on IQ, mind you, not so much on the quality of the actual pictures, although that does tend to bend one's mind in its favour too. A good photographer is capable of using the worst camera to still create a great photograph, after all.

Anyway, first thing I noticed was the virtually noise-free 3200 iso images. Wow! Looked even better than the 5D. I still need to do some detailed comparisons, but that is how it looks. Actually, I find I don't even think twice about using iso 3200 at all anymore, that's how good it really is. Next question was whether it still had that same magic touch that the 5D seems to impose on images taken with it, and yes, it does have that same magic, just in even more glorious detail. This was what I thought I saw in those pictures posted everywhere, and I am glad I can confirm that now first hand :D.

Ok, after having checked that, I started looking a little better at the camera and its controls. I expected it to be more intuitive and easier to use than the 5D obviously, more or less in the vain of the 40D. Well, I was in for a pleasant surprise. I did test a couple of 50Ds a while ago, and a few 500Ds, but that was for fun and to check IQ, no more really, so when I discovered on the 5D II that it had a similar feature, namely that you can not only display the camera settings on the large LCD display, at all times (unlike the 40D where you have to switch this on over and over again, after every picture you take), but you can also manipulate the settings, with joy-stick, followed by going directly into the menu, or followed by manipulation with the wheel, I felt like I had gone to UI-nirvana. This alone will make me not want to use the 5D Classic anymore, and this is one thing I already wanted with the 400D. Yes, I don't care about the top LCD. When I take my eye off the VF, the LCD is the first thing I see, and I don't want to move the camera downwards to look at a for me almost unreadable military grey green with tiny blackish glyphs of an excuse of an LCD screen to try and decipher what is going on. Give me full-glory large icon high colour any day for menus :D. And if I don't want it, to save battery power maybe, I can always switch it off :D.

Of course, discovering this Info setting option, makes one look more closely at the screen, and the fantastic menu, which is similar to the 40D but looks way, way better than that of the 40D, let alone the 5D Classic, and when using the menu and chimping, you can only be in awe of the quality of this new LCD at the back. It is extremely easy to see in all but the most difficult lighting conditions (as in, harsh sunlight hitting the screen directly), but just creating a little shadow by covering the sun with one's hand will make it usable again. It is also extremely easy to see if a picture is sharp. Actually the one thing I really missed is a 100 % indicator of some sort, as it is too easy to overshoot that mark in one's head and then start worrying again :D. I am starting to get a feeling for this by now, fortunately :D.

Another option I really like is Micro Adjust for lens AF. I tested a used 135L, and found it needed -7 to focus properly. That and a few other things made me get that lens back to the original owner, and as a result I actually got a new one, which doesn't need any micro adjust at all. But it certainly is good to have it. While talking about focusing, I did several tests in weird light conditions, like fluorescent lighting, a mix of lighting (tungsten, daylight, halogen, fluorescent), fluorescent and tungsten, fluorescent, tungsten and daylight, and I found it focused correctly and very, very consistently. The 5D Classic had problems with this at times, especially with fluorescent lighting in the mix, as did the 40D and the 400D, etc.

While testing for this, I also found that White Balance seems to have been improved. Tungsten still gives a slightly reddish result, but much less so than with my previous cameras, and the rest is actually quite good. To be very honest, for me tungsten lighting doesn't have to be fully corrected, because I don't want to remove the feel it gives, the atmosphere and ambiance. While carrying the camera around the first month, I also had a new AWB filter, the BaLENS white balance lens cap, which I compared with the ExpoDisc which I already had. I honestly don't know when you need those tools anymore now. Results are better from AWB than with either of these tools, which actually behave similar. I found that, in general, these tools set White Balance too cold on the 5D Mk II.

An option I installed as quickly as I could, is an Eg-S focusing screen. On the 5D I used an EE-S, on the 40D an Ef-S, essentially the focusing screen designed for use with lenses of F/2.8 or faster. These allow one to judge DoF much better than the standard focusing screen, and since I really like to use fast lenses a lot, it is the focusing screen option that has my preference. Using it while shooting in macro mode, handheld, I realized something else, BTW. The VF of the 5D Mk II is actually a little brighter than that of the 5D Classic. And maybe the Eg-S is better than the EE-S too, because I can actually now set a magnification, o tfocusing distance, move the camera close enough to the object that the object is in focus in the viewfinder, IOW, visual confirmation in the VF (!), and shoot. Before, it was almost pot luck whether the object was in DoF, provided that the object and/or camera didn't move, but this is no longer the case. I am actually amazed every time I try this, I have never encountered a camera, ever, where it was so easy to focus manually, or any other way. I love it!

I forgot to mention something about the AF system. Under most conditions, I set AF to Single Shot, Centre Point Focus only, no hunting if focus cannot be achieved. The 5D Mk II seems to have some extra feedback built-in, compared to the 5D Classic, or the 40D, 400D etc. It will adjust focus slightly as long as the focus button is pressed, and it deems it necessary, and only then. When in macro mode and using AF, especially with an extender or tcon mounted, this is most noticeable. It looks like it is no longer a single loop without feedback, or a single travel back and forth through the focus range. It stays close to where it should be, and checks every so often while one holds the button depressed. I'll have to do some more checking on this.

Another thing is the 50L, in combination with the 5D II. With the 40D and 5D Classic, AF completely missed focus about 1 out of every 10 shot swith the 40D nearby, and about 1 in 20 with the 5D Classic. IOW, not just a little back focus, but focused e.g. at infinity instead of nearby. I haven't encountered this at all with the 5D Mk II. I was hoping for this after reading the specs for the 5D Mk II, but so far it looks like this is the case, at least for my combo. The 50L really comes into its own on the 5D II.

Before upgrading to the 5D Mk II, I thought I should get an additional 8GB CF card. Boy, oh boy, yes you need additional memory! Large fine jpegs range from 4.8 to 12 MB in size, averaging out at about 5.5 MB, and full Raw files range in size from from 22.5 to 38.3 MB so far, average about 25.5 MB! I should have gotten a 16 or 32 GB card I think. My 8GB cards only hold about 250 images or so, if I shoot small jpegs and RAWs combined. A single RAW file produced by this camera wouldn't fit on the first hard drive I got back in 1986 - makes one wonder. It looks like the higher the iso, the larger the files get, on average.

Another thing I noticed is the extreme good behaviour with contra-light and high contrast situations, even with the ALO switched off. In-camera light measurement actually is very good in that case. S e picture below, f.e.

So, is everything roses and no thorns? Of course not, there is no such thing as a perfect camera, or a perfect anything, and even if there was such a thing, I would probably still find something to comment upon :D.

Battery life is something I am not extremely happy about, but maybe I should occasionally switch off that big LCD. For the first three charges, I only got about 200 to 250 shots from a single battery, and that is much less than I expected. It is good I ordered a spare one with the camera, as I would have been in trouble otherwise. I guess I may need a few more, and maybe a batterygrip after all, although after setting the LCD to switch off by pressing the shutter button again, I find it is lasting much longer, at least twice the amount I was getting from the first few charges. The verdict is still out, however, even after some more testing, although now I managed well over 550 shots from a single charge, with 2 little bars of the battery indicator to go still. I guess that is more like people have been reporting here.

Then there is the noise at really high isos, 6400 iso and up. I think at 6400 iso it is fairly dramatic, but I also think something can be done about it. I just need to experiment a bit more. When lighting is perfect, it is fine, but noise is always lurking in the shadows, literally, to jump at you when you don't need it. Considering the quality of the middle and upper part of the dynamic range, it should be possible to work around it with some good noise suppression technology, but so far I have only been busy trying to get around the noise at even higher isos, because at H1 and H2 it really is disturbing, a gimmick if you ask me. I am working on some middle ground solution currently to see if I can make an IMO usable B&W conversion from these high isos. There just is too much luminance noise for the current Noise Ninja profiles to deal with, so I have to see if I can get around this in another way. Still a few more things to try.

The 5D Mk II has a sensor filter shaker in order to get rid of the dust, in combination with a special anti-dust coating of the filter in the sensor assembly which faces the back of the lens. Since I was getting annoyed with the 5D Classic because of the innumerable times it seemed to collect dust and other stuff on the sensor, I was hoping that this would be less of a problem with the 5D Mk II. The verdict really is still out. After several hundreds shots the first (tiny) specks of dust were there, but it looks like the shaker does have some effect, as I had a few come and go again. However, it does seem to have incurred a small oil/grease spot. I guess with a new camera that is always possible. So far, it has been quite comparable to the 40D, and if that comparison holds up, after about 4000 to 5000 shots, cleaning should become more a yearly thing than something required almost every other day like with the 5D Classic. I do switch lenses a lot, but then, we are talking reflex here, IOW, designed for changing lenses.

Now I get to a few questions I still have, and number one deals with Live View and flash. Ideally I'd like to be able to MF in Live View mode when doing macro shoots, and then use flash for the actual picture. I haven't found the way to do this yet. Is this actually possible, or is this just some silly wish of mine?

The second question concerns a picture I took with flash on second shutter curtain sync. The image is partially obscured by the shutter curtain at the bottom. Since it forms a straight line, it looks to me like a sync problem, rather than a failing shutter. Furthermore, this happened while the battery indicator was flashing. My question is whether anybody here with a 5D Mk II has experienced something similar, and if so, what was causing this and/or what was the remedy? I am actually a little worried about this, especially considering my (lack of) luck with new equipment. Maybe I shouldn't sell my 5D Classic yet ... Ok, too late now :D. BTW, I haven't been able to recreate this problem yet, because soon after, the batteries in the flash were also exhausted, and I put fresh batteries in camera and flash.

However, other than the above, the 5D mk II is a great camera, and I actually love shooting with it. It is absolutely great, and I find I have more fun even than when I shot for the first time with my new 350D, my first entry into the world of dslr. I also find that the more I shoot with it, the more I like it. It is utterly reliable in the things it is supposed to do. IQ just is so good, you keep on coming back to any pictures you shoot, over and over again, and be amazed, over and over again. The step up from 5D to 5D II is easily as large as from 40D to 5D, if you ask me, if not larger. The result is that I am a very happy camper right now :D.

Kind regards, Wim

A few pics, overview + 100 %, straight from camera raw, downsized, nothing else done, and a 100 % detail crop of same:


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Jul 08, 2009 19:09 |  #2

Here are a few macro shots I posted earlier, where I actually moved the camera after setting magnification. One shot at F/2 (to show the incredible bokeh of the50L even better :D), and at F/8:


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Jul 08, 2009 19:13 |  #3

Another few, which I thought was quite good going at 3200 iso, especially considering the detail. One full shot, downsized, one crop at 100 %. I love the little "eyes" which seem to keep on following you wherever you move :D.


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Jul 08, 2009 19:14 |  #4

And another shot messing around while on a train trip:


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Jul 09, 2009 20:06 |  #5

wimg wrote in post #8247833 (external link)
.... questions I still have, and number one deals with Live View and flash. Ideally I'd like to be able to MF in Live View mode when doing macro shoots, and then use flash for the actual picture. I haven't found the way to do this yet. Is this actually possible, or is this just some silly wish of mine?

The second question concerns a picture I took with flash on second shutter curtain sync. The image is partially obscured by the shutter curtain at the bottom. Since it forms a straight line, it looks to me like a sync problem, rather than a failing shutter. Furthermore, this happened while the battery indicator was flashing. My question is whether anybody here with a 5D Mk II has experienced something similar, and if so, what was causing this and/or what was the remedy? ....

Anybody who could answer one or both of these questions?

Kind regards, Wim


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Jul 09, 2009 21:06 |  #6

Are the focusing screens for 5D and 5D2 interchangeable?
John


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Jul 09, 2009 21:33 |  #7

john-in-japan wrote in post #8254317 (external link)
Are the focusing screens for 5D and 5D2 interchangeable?
John

Hi John,

Yes, they are (just like 40D and 50D screens are interchangeable), but according to Canon you shouldn't use 5D Classic screens (the EE- ones) on the 5D Mk II (and vice versa probably), mostly because of potential metering problems. I haven't actually tried, the main reason being that they are a little hard to tell apart, and I diddn't want to mix them up :D.

I do find that MF and focusing when doing macro with the 5D II and an Eg-S is quite a lot easier than it is with the standard focusing screen, and it is also easier than it is with the 5D Classic and the EE-S.

BTW, I also find that the 5D II, or rather mine, seems to overexpose by about 1/3 of a stop when using the Eg-S, and it doesn't matter whether I select Eg-S or Eg-A in Custom Functions (C.Fn. IV - 5). However, this may be lens and/or metering mode related. The verdict is still out on this as I feel I need to do more shooting to be sure.

Kind regards, Wim


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Jul 09, 2009 21:34 |  #8

I'm not sure I understand your first question about the flash. You want to focus manually then flip the switch on the lens to manual focus.

On your second question, did you have your shutter set at the correct sync speed?



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Jul 09, 2009 21:54 |  #9

justaf IREMAN wrote in post #8254470 (external link)
I'm not sure I understand your first question about the flash. You want to focus manually then flip the switch on the lens to manual focus.

I'd like to use LiveView and flash, handheld, and haven't found a way to do that yet. IOW, focus in LiveView mode, press the shutter button, and the flash goes off without flipping down and up the mirror in between (because I want to shoot the sharp in focus image right there and then, without runnign the risk of moving OOF in between). I use manual mode on the flash, so it shouldn't interfere with overall exposure.

I'll give switching to MF a try however, even though I use FTM lenses, and do use MF in LiveView mode. One never knows.

On your second question, did you have your shutter set at the correct sync speed?

Yes, 1/200s, 2nd curtain sync. This happened during a long session of macro shooting with flash, and I only had a single shot where this happened. I haven't been able to recreate the problem, however. It might actually have been a very low battery after all.

Kind regards, Wim


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Jul 09, 2009 22:00 |  #10

Thanks Wim -
John


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Jul 09, 2009 22:49 |  #11

Nice writeup Wim.
I don't think I've read any detailed observations from anyone who actually owned a 5D and got the 5DII.

Glad you're so happy with it. I'm a bit jealous. :)

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about the flash/shutter issue. Canon cameras (as I'm sure you know) are notorious for doing strange things when the battery's nearly expended.



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Jul 10, 2009 08:46 |  #12

Hi John,

john-in-japan wrote in post #8254606 (external link)
Thanks Wim -
John

The pleasure is mine!

Kind regards, Wim


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Jul 10, 2009 08:54 |  #13

Hi Brett,

Brett wrote in post #8254848 (external link)
Nice writeup Wim.
I don't think I've read any detailed observations from anyone who actually owned a 5D and got the 5DII.

:D
Exactly why I thought I would do a write-up, even if from my personal perspective :D. I deliberately waited for more than 2 months, for the newness and excitement surrounding new gear to wear off. However, I am still excited. I just keep on coming back to pictures I shot with this cam. One of my more interesting observations is, I think anyway, that I don't even think twice at using iso 3200 anymore, and barely thinking about iso 6400. With the 5D Classic, I'd try to stay away from iso 3200 unless there was no other option.

Glad you're so happy with it. I'm a bit jealous. :)

:D. I am sure you'll end up with one, sooner or later.

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about the flash/shutter issue. Canon cameras (as I'm sure you know) are notorious for doing strange things when the battery's nearly expended.

Or when the camera thinks they are (40D + 85L :D).
Thank you for the reassurance, however.

Kind regards, Wim


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Jul 10, 2009 09:04 as a reply to  @ wimg's post |  #14

thanks for posting this Wim. I have been looking forward to reading it.

From the 5DMkII pictures I see here there is just that extra something above the classic. To me the quality of the resolution is outstanding. i dont know whether it exceeds film or not. But compared to the classic there is just a micro detail that looks almost medium format in comparasion.

Congratulations!:D


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Jul 10, 2009 09:08 |  #15

Nice mini-review. The part that really caught my eye is what you said about the 50L. Is it really noticeably more accurate on the 5D2?


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Short review of 5D II, and a question or two....
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