Color management environment & printer profiles

I've gotten a few things printed lately, and haven't been too happy with the output. Nothing was too expensive, and the prints weren't horrible, I'm just not happy.

For the first company, a local printer that provided some 5x7s and a couple 8x10s, they printed from a Agfa photo printer. The prints were too light when compared to my monitor.

The second company was ElcoColor, and the prints were very nice - but too dark.

Two of the prints happened to be of the same photo at different sizes, and comparing them shows a very noticeable difference.


This leads to one question somewhat about color management - my environment. I know that my office is too dark, and my Gretag Eye-One says so, too. It says that my room is about 1/4 as bright as it should be. The color of my dark lamp is quite wrong for viewing - something like 2500 degrees rather than the recommended 5500 degrees.

Just how important is all that? Mind you, I'm not trying to get *perfect* prints - it just sticks out that these two were too light or dark and quite different. I also have to admit that I am not (yet) a color-matching fanatic. As long as a blue sky looks like a blue sky I'm generally happy.

And I have to admit that if I deck out my office for ultimate print viewing I may just get OCD about it like I tend to do. I don't know if I want that! I'll probably start shooting Gretag color charts and running test prints and... Yikes. I'm almost always quite happy with the colors I get from prints - but not the brightness I guess.


First Question:
So, if I'm just worried about brightness, and not color accuracy, should I deck out my office in color-correct lighting and stuff? (And should I be concerned that such an exercise would point out color inaccuracy, and set off my OCD tendencies to test until perfection?)

Next:
It makes sense to me that I should have soft-proofed the photos in Photoshop before sending them off to the printer. But neither company provides profiles for their printers. Is there something that I could do to soft-proof for those printers (Agfa photo & Epson IPF9600), and end up with prints that are closer to the screen than what I got? (I tend to doubt it for the local Agfa photo printer, but I'd hope for better with ElcoColor and their nice Epson.)

Last:
Besides WHCC, can anyone recommend a quality printer or to that provides printer profiles and will assist me in getting top-notch prints?

And before someone mentions it, I am *not* interested in buying my own printer. I don't have the time, nor do I have the money to buy a printer that will do everything I would ever want to print. And the OCD would be overwhelming - I'd spend $1000 and the summer just doing test prints. Sheesh, I don't need to do that to myself.

I'm no expert by far, but have a few questions that may help kick off the discussion.

1. Are you dealing with photo labs that print with all auto corrections disabled? Most of the non-pro labs will take your nicely PP'd image and apply auto-contrast, auto-brightness and auto-color corrections. Some labs will even refuse to print with the auto-corrections turned off.

2. Do you soft proof in Photoshop using the profile for the machine your print lab is using?

1. ElcoColor says they don't correct for their Fine Art prins, which is what I ordered. In any case I always state "No Color Corrections" when sending to a printer, no matter what they say.

2. As stated, neither company provides profiles for their printers.
2a. One question I asked above was basically "Even though I don't have the proper print profiles, can I somehow soft-proof *something* to get a better idea of the final print?"

It sounds like your best bet for the two vendors is to talk to the ones with the Epson, find out what papers they are using, look for the ICC profiles (either from Epson or the paper vendors) and then use those profiles to soft proof.

Your best bet in general is to find a vendor who provides profiles, whether Costco or online, and work with them. Whichever way you go, getting a good variety of pics printed as a proof that will show a variety of tonal and color treatments will help you settle with one vendor.

Scottes wrote in post #8248401
2a. One question I asked above was basically "Even though I don't have the proper print profiles, can I somehow soft-proof *something* to get a better idea of the final print?"

I have been using Costco for my prints and they look fantastic. Dry Creek Photo provides their profiles. They also have a great tutorial on how to not only apply the profiles, but an entire workflow. You can see it here:

http://www.drycreekpho​to.com …sing_printer_pr​ofiles.htm

Without a profile I don't know how you could soft proof.

Scottes, You say they don't have profiles for their printers. What profiles are embedded in your prints? By chance are they different in the two examples you gave? That could be one explanation for the different results.

In2Photos wrote in post #8251449
I have been using Costco for my prints and they look fantastic. Dry Creek Photo provides their profiles. They also have a great tutorial on how to not only apply the profiles, but an entire workflow. You can see it here:

http://www.drycreekpho​to.com …sing_printer_pr​ofiles.htm

Without a profile I don't know how you could soft proof.

If he doesn't have a calibrated monitor soft proofing would be a waste of time wouldn't it?

In2Photos wrote in post #8251449
I have been using Costco for my prints and they look fantastic.

I doubt that Costco will do everything I want - from "fine art" to 20x60 panoramic prints.

In2Photos wrote in post #8251449
Without a profile I don't know how you could soft proof.

I thought so, but had to ask in case anyone had a trick up their sleeve.

Bodog wrote in post #8251612
Scottes, You say they don't have profiles for their printers. What profiles are embedded in your prints? By chance are they different in the two examples you gave? That could be one explanation for the different results.

sRGB, as they say they can take anything, but I went "safe."

jimlp wrote in post #8251660
If he doesn't have a calibrated monitor soft proofing would be a waste of time wouldn't it?

I do have a calibrated monitor, as implied by my mention of owning a Gretag Eye-One.

jimlp wrote in post #8251660
If he doesn't have a calibrated monitor soft proofing would be a waste of time wouldn't it?

True it would, but since he has a calibrated monitor he is good to go.

Scottes wrote in post #8251680
I doubt that Costco will do everything I want - from "fine art" to 20x60 panoramic prints.

Ah yes, probably not. I know Miller's can do it all and they provide profiles. I use them for Sports stuff and they do great work as well. But as a pro lab they have requirements (I think 5k a year in orders although I never quite reach that). MPIX is the "consumer" version, but can do almost as much. Not sure about profiles though.

Scottes wrote in post #8251680
sRGB, as they say they can take anything, but I went "safe."

IMO the problem with delivering a file in anything other then the printer profile, and relying on someone else to do the conversion is that you have no control on wether they use Rel. Col. or Perceptual (can be a pretty big difference!) and you cannot edit while softproofing.

If you're critical, try to get a hold of their profile, or use a different lab that does provide their profile.