Need Flash gun advice

Having never used a flash gun in my life I am looking for some advice. I am looking to get a gun for macro as well as general photography (maybe even birds with a better beamer).
I realise that the Canon MT-24EX is the daddy of the macro flashes but I could not justify this for little macro shooting I do. I guess the choice comes down to the 430EX II or the 580 EX II. What are the pros and cons of these two units and which would you advise me to buy. Also do I need any thing else like brackets, diffusers or off camera shoe cord? Thanks in advance.

Roy C,
Go for the 580ex II as its more powerful then the 430ex II and for birds it will pay off its also excellent for macro, I use my 580ex for my 100mm and my MP-E 65mm Off-Shoe extension cord is also highly recommended as it gives you more options on light angles especially when going with magnifications higher then 1:1 (ex with extension tubes) its really needed.

John_B wrote in post #8255897
Roy C,
Go for the 580ex II as its more powerful then the 430ex II and for birds it will pay off its also excellent for macro, I use my 580ex for my 100mm and my MP-E 65mm Off-Shoe extension cord is also highly recommended as it gives you more options on light angles especially when going with magnifications higher then 1:1 (ex with extension tubes) its really needed.

Thanks for that John.

Honestly, I am fine even with my 420EX Speedlite that has no manual controls. Obviously, if your more advanced than me and require more powerful flash/controls the others are clearly better.

The main advantage of the 420EX is that it's $120 online, about half as much as even a 430EX .

Regardless of which flash gun you use, if you are using it for macro you should get a reasonably large diffuser (I reccomend the Lumiquest Softbox), and if you are using extension tubes probably a flash bracket as well.

Baselerd wrote in post #8259121
Honestly, I am fine even with my 420EX Speedlite that has no manual controls. Obviously, if your more advanced than me and require more powerful flash/controls the others are clearly better.

The main advantage of the 420EX is that it's $120 online, about half as much as even a 430EX .

Regardless of which flash gun you use, if you are using it for macro you should get a reasonably large diffuser (I reccomend the Lumiquest Softbox), and if you are using extension tubes probably a flash bracket as well.

Thanks for that, I certainly would not be more advanced than you given that I have never used a flash gun of any sort in my life
Are you saying that something like the 420EX and a large diffuser would work OK without a bracket (100mm lens, no tubes) e.g just fitted on the hot shoe ?

Roy C wrote in post #8260979
Thanks for that, I certainly would not be more advanced than you given that I have never used a flash gun of any sort in my life
Are you saying that something like the 420EX and a large diffuser would work OK without a bracket (100mm lens, no tubes) e.g just fitted on the hot shoe ?

Yeah, it should work. I've gotten good results with just my 420EX + Lumiquest Softbox + 60mm EF-S USM. If you have the money, a 430EX is probably a better investment because if you continue with flash photography I think most people will outgrow a 420EX

The main issue I see/hear with extension tubes is that the light source is too far away from the subject. A flash bracket is an easy addition if you feel you need it (need a flash bracket + off-shoe cord), and it allows you better positioning of the flash regardless.

Baselerd wrote in post #8261135
Yeah, it should work. I've gotten good results with just my 420EX + Lumiquest Softbox + 60mm EF-S USM. If you have the money, a 430EX is probably a better investment because if you continue with flash photography I think most people will outgrow a 420EX

The main issue I see/hear with extension tubes is that the light source is too far away from the subject. A flash bracket is an easy addition if you feel you need it (need a flash bracket + off-shoe cord), and it allows you better positioning of the flash regardless.

Thanks, just to check is it the Lumiquest LQ-107 softbox ?

Roy C wrote in post #8261153
Thanks, just to check is it the Lumiquest LQ-107 softbox ?

Yep. Of course, it's not the only medium sized flash diffuser