When are you considered "professional"

20droger wrote in post #8280346
As Skip said, "professional" is as defined by the people running the contest. Ask them what they mean.

For example, in the old days, the Olympics were limited to amateurs. The officials defined "professional" as anyone who made any money (or equivalent) at any time in whatever the sport was. If you won a $10 prize lifting weights at the county fair, then, as far as they were concerned, you were a professional weight lifter.

I wish they'd go back to that and enforce it rigidly. the Olympics have gone downhill since they let "Pros" compete, especially in men's basketball...

SkipD wrote in post #8277625
Only the folks who are running the contest can define their interpretation of "professional". While the normal definition means that the photographer earns his/her living via photography, the contest group might disqualifiy you if you do work for hire at all. Ask them.

This is the best answer for the question as asked. You need to ask the governing body of the contest. In the few contests around here that I've noticed, many have said that if you have ever made any money from your photography, then you do not qualify (as an amateur).

JWright wrote in post #8280550
I wish they'd go back to that and enforce it rigidly. the Olympics have gone downhill since they let "Pros" compete, especially in men's basketball...

Perhaps. But the strict "no professionals" rule was hardly in keeping with the original Greek concept of the Olympic Games, where virtually all the athletes were professionals.

reefergal wrote in post #8275389
There are some photography contest in my area and you are not suppose to enter if you are a "professional photographer". In no means do I consider myself a "professional photographer", but was wondering what the criteria would be for that. Any thoughts?

There are a lot of definitions based on how much earns. But all that is just the arithmetic of the moment, in my view. There is only one standard, and that's if you make yourself available for hire to the general public.

From any customer's point of view, it doesn't matter a fig how much you do or don't make, or whether you kept your day job. To them, it only matters that you deliver a product commensurate with your price. They will expect that of you even if it's the only paid gig you have for the last five years.

But then I don't consider being called a "professional" as necessarily a compliment. I'm a licensed professional engineer in five states. That license is not easy to get, and it required a college degree, years of documented and approved experience, and two, um, non-trivial 8-hour exams. But if you read the engineering practice law, that license only allows me to offer engineering services to the public. What it requires of me, on the other hand, is huge, right up to and including taking responsibility for my designs. I don't have to do a single bit of paid engineering work to maintain those licenses, but they still entitle me to use the term professional, with all the responsibilities that entails.

I have been a professional photographer for periods of my life. I made money doing it, and maybe enough at times to eke out a living. But I never lived off it. But I was still a professional--my clients hired me, paid me, and expected me to behave and deliver like a pro. Now, I'm an amateur--I do it for the love of doing it--even though I still do the occasional gig for money. I'm not a professional because I don't claim to be a professional or offer my services for hire.

Edit: Oh, the contest. You'll have to ask them. The variety of the answers in this thread should tell you how likely any of us would be to guess wrong what the contest promoters are thinking. For me, if a person ever offered their services as a professional, even if nobody had hired them, I would exclude them. If they had been hired and paid for a job, then it's for sure.

Canon has the 51% rule because photographer want to claim being a professional to get goodies from Canon. That's nothing to do with the definition of the word. And if Canon was smart, they would find a different way to differentiate, because that one pisses people (me, for one) off.

Rick "professional comes from 'profess'" Denney

Professor Denney has spoken.

Just to further confuse the issue, it wasn't until the middle of the the 20th century that a "professional" could be anyone other than a member of one of the three classical professions, i.e., those occupations in which a practitioner required an education beyond that of an ordinary college degree: medicine, law, and clergy.

Now, a garbage collector is a "sanitation engineer," a housewife is a "domestic engineer," a secretary is an "executive assistant," and the person who processes the paperwork at my doctor's office is a "medical professional."

Talk about dumbing down the language....

When you act like one.

The only reason to worry about this is if you win, right? Then, you need to worry about whether or not your going to get disqualified. I would bet their definition is pretty broad, but you need to ask them.

20droger wrote in post #8283971
Professor Denney has spoken.

Just to further confuse the issue, it wasn't until the middle of the the 20th century that a "professional" could be anyone other than a member of one of the three classical professions, i.e., those occupations in which a practitioner required an education beyond that of an ordinary college degree: medicine, law, and clergy.

It was 1937 in Texas when engineers were first required to be licensed before they could call themselves engineers and offer services. I suppose that's the middle of the century. But Wyoming first required professional licensing for engineers and land surveyors in 1907.

And the first licensed profession in the U.S. was for dentistry, in 1883.

But it was the middle of the century (exactly--1950) by the time licensure for engineering was required in all states plus the Alaskan territory.

Rick "who loves being pedantic with Roger, but who agrees about dumbing down the language" Denney

Far be it from me to refute your claim to being pedantic.

Of course, you're confusing being licensed with being a professional. Similarly, you are confusing being a member of a profession with being a professional. But that's all right, the government does too. In fact, they are the biggest proponents of dumbing down the language.

I can call a door a schmerdlapp if I so choose. But it still remains a door. However, if the government chooses to call a door a schmerdlapp, and insists it be so referenced in any and all legal documents, it becomes a schmerdlapp.

Never forget, they have the power, and they know how to abuse it.

20droger wrote in post #8287552
Far be it from me to refute your claim to being pedantic.

Of course, you're confusing being licensed with being a professional. Similarly, you are confusing being a member of a profession with being a professional. But that's all right, the government does too. In fact, they are the biggest proponents of dumbing down the language.

I can call a door a schmerdlapp if I so choose. But it still remains a door. However, if the government chooses to call a door a schmerdlapp, and insists it be so referenced in any and all legal documents, it becomes a schmerdlapp.

Never forget, they have the power, and they know how to abuse it.

Truer words have never been spoken.

20droger wrote in post #8287552
Far be it from me to refute your claim to being pedantic.

I suppose you should know.

Rick "Roger's favorite Pet Ant" Denney