Hey ump, read the rules!

I think we've all heard fans tell umpires to look at the rule book, but I've never seen them actually do it until yesterday.

Close play at the plate, kid goes in standing up. Ball bounces off runner. Runner at home called safe as two other runners advance before the ball is recovered.

Coaches for the defense say he has to slide and should have been called out. They check the league rules, then the official little league rule book. After ten minutes they stick with their call and the run counts.

Of course this was in the 6th inning of the championship game and the run in question tied the game. The good news is, the team that lost that argument won the game so the umps are off the hook and no one can say they influenced the outcome.

Never heard of the "you have to slide into home plate" rule...

Yep, in LL, sliding to ANY base when a play is being made is the rule. It's for safety reasons and to avoid collision. the coach who called the play were correct. The runner should have been called out for not sliding. Oh, and you have to slide feet first UNLESS a runner is going back to a base he's already occupied or safely passed.

Good thing the team that got the 'free run' didn't end up winning by a single run or things would have gotten ugly.

Sign me ... LL umpire of hundreds of games!

dave

The rule here in BC is called the "Slide or Avoid" rule and states, "if a play is being made, or is about to be made, it is MANDATORY for players of all age groups to slide or make an effort to avoid a collision at all bases and home plate. Failure to do either will result in an automatic out. The ball is dead and no runner may advance beyond the base that was legally acquired. An umpire will have the option of ejection if the incident warrants such a measure."

The rule was designed primarily to avoid catchers getting steamrolled at the plate, however the fact that it applies to ALL bases and that it states in part "...or a play is about to be made..." introduces some gray area into this rule. It sounds in your case like the runner should have been called out, but I guess the umps felt that the play could not have been made...or alternatively, if there was no collision, perhaps they felt he "avoided"? The rule becomes even more gray when a runner stealing second for example goes in standing up, does not slide, and there is close play...technically he should have slid and many a coach has argued this point based on the rule (some with success), even though from a traditional baseball sense, the runner WAS safe and it was at his own risk of not sliding to possibly be tagged out.

I'd also be interested in knowing who brought the rules on to the field. Generally if a COACH does this, many umpires will eject them from the game as I always understood that a coach can not bring a rule book on to the field...I am not sure if this is technically against the rules, but at least I think it is technically against the "umpire rules"...ie showing the umps up or something, and they will not be pleased!

Well, it was Little League.

There were two other runners behind the guy going into home. The kid was just running, probably had no idea the play would be at home, or if a play was being made at all, since it was all happening behind him.

Also, the coaches on the offensive team argued that the catcher can't block the plate without the ball, which he was doing (in my opinion).

I didn't hear the ump's explanation as to why they decided that way. But it seems like a pretty tough call to me. Umping Little League has to be one of the most thankless jobs in the world, and my hat's off to anyone willing to put up with the crap they get.

snyderman wrote in post #8277797
Sign me ... LL umpire of hundreds of games!

dave

Dave, just curious, have you ever pulled out the official rule book during a game?

My oldest daughters softball league has a slide rule. If there's a play at the plate you have to slide or you are out.

cstewart wrote in post #8278078
I'd also be interested in knowing who brought the rules on to the field. Generally if a COACH does this, many umpires will eject them from the game as I always understood that a coach can not bring a rule book on to the field...I am not sure if this is technically against the rules, but at least I think it is technically against the "umpire rules"...ie showing the umps up or something, and they will not be pleased!

Agree big time ! I've seen it happen.....was on the field in a game when a coach came roaring off the sidelines, book in hand, crossed that line to the 'fair territory' and the ump ran him right there.

Ol' Blue then said something like "try to show me up will ya" .... ! !

We were in a similar situation this past weekend.

Kid coming home, catcher ran down the line and initiated contact (reached his glove out - I missed this shot, wish I had gotten it). Our runner had not attempted to slide just yet because the kid came down the line. They made contact and the ball popped out.

Kid coming home was called out, not for not sliding, but for not avoiding contact. Funny thing is the ump had just told us the game before he threw a kid out for sliding into the catcher and taking his feet out. Had this runner slid it would have been the same thing, with the catcher coming down the line like that.

It was argued that had he tried to not make contact he would have been out of the baseline and would have been called out anyhow. Ump said untrue, they wouldn't have called him out of the baseline for avoiding a collision....which I know is bull because had they not, they should have. You can't go out of the baseline, period. Coaches have always told our kids (no matter what coach they have played for) if they are in the baseline, or on the bag, run through them, you have rights to the base.

Not the best shot, but you get the idea.

btw, my husband has coached for 14 years and says he agrees with the umps that your runner is safe.

Carol:

Does not matter how long anyone has been coaching (me for almost the same amount of time), as the rule seems to always change depending on the ump and the rule simply leaves too much of a gray area to always be enforced properly (as in your example). I have seen runners called out at plate for not sliding on wild pitches when the pitcher is not even covering and there is no play and I have seen pitchers in same situation when covering get run over with no call on the runner. It would be nice if there was a simple way to clarify and enforce the rule but I am afraid it will always be up to umpires and coaches differing opinions of what constitutes a "play being made" or what constitutes "avoidance". All I can hope as a coach is that it does not cause an issue in a big game. For my players, I err on the side of caution and tell them to slide in pretty much all cases.

Cheers!

Chris

First - I like the photo

Anyone who umps or refs youth sports is special. It is a thankless job. My hats off to blue and zebra suited folks.

Just for grins, I found this: http://www.fld9.org/ru​les/myths.php?answer=1​1#11

dlpasco wrote in post #8280144
First - I like the photo

Thanks. I happened to have a good vantage point for the shot, and I think it does a good job of telling the story.

Just for grins, I found this: http://www.fld9.org/ru​les/myths.php?answer=1​1#11

From reading that link, I would think the umps made the right call in this case, since the catcher did not have the ball.

My nephew was on the losing team, coming up with second place in the league for the second year in a row. He's the most intense 12-yr-old athlete I have ever seen, and the counterpart to this intensity is that he takes it pretty hard when he loses. Of course, sometimes you learn more valuable life-lessons from losing than from winning.

In any event, I would rather deal with disappointed kids than overzealous, pi$$ed off parents any day. A few immature buttheads in the stands can really take the fun out of a ball game.

When I coached I hated this rule. Sliding is a great way to break the catcher's ankle...and I've seen that happen. Yikes. It's just kind of a lose/lose thing, but I think the rule needs to go. I think if the runner intentionally tries to take out the catcher with no attempt to avoid him, you can call him out, but if he runs across the plate and isn't even near the catcher, he shouldn't be called out.

Oh well. It's a grey area and just a thing you have to deal with in little league

Curtis, we had just about the same thing happen here in MD on Sunday. North Calvert All Stars vs Baden All Stars, (Girls fast pitch softball) Baden batter hits a ball towards second, Runner on first heads to second. Ball hits the runner heading to second, then bounces to the second baseman. She picks up the ball and throws out the girl heading to first. Ump calls both girls out. (Outs 2 & 3) Baden coach goes nuts, Baden assistant coach gets loud enough to get tossed, and the NC Coach tells the ump he missed the call as well. Umps go to the rule book and after a lengthy review reversed the call. According to little leauge fast pitch rules if a runner is hit by a batted ball, that runner is out; however the ball is then dead. Ump reversed the out on first since the ball was dead, then asked the asst. coach if he had calmed down, and told him that since it was his error, he would allow the coach to remain in the game. All in all I thought the umps did a good job of reversing their bad call and making it right.

Odie

We had a game lost this year because of this "rule" where the umps told us there was a slide rule when there wasn't and when the other team didn't slide he said there was none contradicting himself allowing the run to score. However, there's no such thing as a slide rule in most leagues (official little league does not have one - other leagues calling themselves little league and not affiliated are not supposed to be calling themselves that btw). The leagues who have it are BEGGING for a law suit if a kid slides and breaks his leg by forcing him to do it. Usually a "no-collision" rule is better where you avoid colliding and a slide is one way of doing it. The UMPS were 100% correct!! The leagues who have the slide rule are 100% stupid IMPO - should be just a "no collision rule".