2 Monolight Light Question

In brief...

I was gear crazy, now I am trying to think economically.

I dont make very much money off photography but would enjoy having a nice portrait setup for the few times a year I take them.

I've gone from a literal bag of speedlights, to the 2 580exIIs and 1 430exII you see in my sig.

On 2 cruises, i was intreagued by the ship photographer's simple setup of 2 monolights. I would estimate they were each about 8 feet off the ground, and about 10 feet from the subject (one on each side).

Thease strobes were able to light not only the subject(s) well enough, but not cast shadows on the backround (various colors depending on the night, including white on one occasion).

I have never been able to come close to that kind of power with my (current setup of) 2 580s w umbrellas, and a 430 for the colapsable Boetro 5x7 blue/green backround and on my last shoot I was compeating with ambeiant light due to restrictions in setup location. I would also like to play with and learn studio lighting techniques as well but dont want to spend a fortune.

Would somthing simple and reletivly inexpensive like these impact mono lights do the trick? Would I be better suited with a pair of AB400s or AB800s?

My ultimate goal would be to have the monolights to learn with or use when I take headshots (which are admittidly infreaquently), and trim my speedlight collection down to two, although I may possibly get a 270ex for light travel use...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

DeCeccoNET wrote in post #8285684
In brief...

I was gear crazy, now I am trying to think economically.

I dont make very much money off photography but would enjoy having a nice portrait setup for the few times a year I take them.

I've gone from a literal bag of speedlights, to the 2 580exIIs and 1 430exII you see in my sig.

On 2 cruises, i was intreagued by the ship photographer's simple setup of 2 monolights. I would estimate they were each about 8 feet off the ground, and about 10 feet from the subject (one on each side).

Thease strobes were able to light not only the subject(s) well enough, but not cast shadows on the backround (various colors depending on the night, including white on one occasion).

I have never been able to come close to that kind of power with my (current setup of) 2 580s w umbrellas, and a 430 for the colapsable Boetro 5x7 blue/green backround and on my last shoot I was compeating with ambeiant light due to restrictions in setup location. I would also like to play with and learn studio lighting techniques as well but dont want to spend a fortune.

Would somthing simple and reletivly inexpensive like these impact mono lights do the trick? Would I be better suited with a pair of AB400s or AB800s?

My ultimate goal would be to have the monolights to learn with or use when I take headshots (which are admittidly infreaquently), and trim my speedlight collection down to two, although I may possibly get a 270ex for light travel use...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Impact monolights are nice and have digital controls but like many of the inexpensive digitally controlled monilights they are not the most stable when it comes to power output and color consistency. They're good, just not great.

If you''re not going to be doing pro work then the Impact strobes are fine. Personally, if I was going to get entry level digitally controlled strobes I'd opt for the Calumet Genesis strobes.

You can get a Genesis 200 1 light kit for $199.99
http://www.calumetphot​o.com/item/CF0502K/

OR

A Genesis 200 2 light kit for $369.99

You can jump up to the Genesis 400 strobes if you want or need the extra stop of light.

Strobes are also available individually without buying the kit.

Another nice thing about the Genesis strobes is that they use the Elinchrom mount so as you grow and want to explore higher quality modifiers you can upgrade without buying new lights.

I love the Adorama Flashpoint Monolight IIs. Cheap ($99 each) and plenty of softboxes, beauty dishes, etc for them that are not expensive either. I have had mine for 6 months or so and no issues at all. If you want more power, they have them too.

The two-umbrella setup is extremely easy to use. If the subjects are far enough from the backdrop and the lights are elevated and separated properly, they'll generate a shadow-free image.

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Two monolights can get you a lot.

In the two examples I've posted, the first one is of a local high school prom. The lighting was two **old** Speedotron Brown Line lights into 48" white umbrellas and an 800ws pack. I realize these are not monolights but I thought it a decent example of a simple two-light setup.

The second is my 6-month old grandson. This was shot with two AB800 monolights. The fill was into a 48" white umbrella and the main was thru a photogenic softbox. No hair or background light was used, just the two Alien Bee monolights.

I should go back and scan some of my old wedding stuff, all on film. I used to carry a 2-head Speedotron setup with only a 400ws pack and used it for formals at the altar. With the limited power I was not able to use umbrellas and still get a decent f-stop of f/8 but they did a great job of lighting up even very large bridal parties.

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I have to say that so far I am inspired by the example shots in this thread. Also, since posting this afternoon, an opportunity arose in which i may have a few paid portrait shoots much sooner than i originally anticipated.

I have to ask the following however;

With regard to the two light setup, is it the power (200w, 400w, 1600w etc) or is it the strategic placement of the light sources that allow for the lack of shadow on the respective backgrounds?

If i do end up letting a speedlight or two go, i would most likely be interested in the impact or genesis as they are inexpensive. I do not however wish to run into the same limitations i am finding with my current setup

It's all about placement and controlling light. You create and control shadows the same way regardless of power.

DeCeccoNET wrote in post #8288429
I have to say that so far I am inspired by the example shots in this thread. Also, since posting this afternoon, an opportunity arose in which i may have a few paid portrait shoots much sooner than i originally anticipated.

I have to ask the following however;

With regard to the two light setup, is it the power (200w, 400w, 1600w etc) or is it the strategic placement of the light sources that allow for the lack of shadow on the respective backgrounds?

If i do end up letting a speedlight or two go, i would most likely be interested in the impact or genesis as they are inexpensive. I do not however wish to run into the same limitations i am finding with my current setup

Eliminating the shadows is ALL light placement. More or less power will only determine what your exposure is going to be. I might modify that just a bit by saying that being able to use umbrellas will help soften the light and make it easier to get rid of shadows, but placement is still the real key.

For groups you want to keep the lights closer together, aiming almost straight on. This is critical especially if you have more than one row of people to avoid really nasty shadows across people in the back row(s).
Putting the lights up higher will cause shadows to fall below the background also.

If you're using monolights or even studio strobes with a power pack, you can see how your lighting is falling on the subject(s) by looking carefully at where the shadows from the modeling lights fall. Also with digital you have the advantage of seeing instantly what your lighting looked like

Experiment with it, move lights around, take test shots and see for yourself what happens when you change things. If you have a flash meter or access to one, get yourself a good basic setup and stick with it for your important shots. Light distance from subject, distance apart, power settings, and exposure should be the things you can rely on with your basic setup every time. After that you can play around with different placements and still have your money shots nailed.

Good Luck

Thank you... I think i do still have a lot to learn though

With regard to the modeling lights, I personally have not found those on my speedlights useful as they are just too brief a duration (for me) to work with...

With the modeling lamps found on mono lights, are modeling lamps able to give me a relatively accurate idea as what to expect when i fire the shutter?

Thank you all again for your help and advice, I appreciate it very much!

DeCeccoNET wrote in post #8288551
Thank you... I think i do still have a lot to learn though

With regard to the modeling lights, I personally have not found those on my speedlights useful as they are just too brief a duration (for me) to work with...

With the modeling lamps found on mono lights, are modeling lamps able to give me a relatively accurate idea as what to expect when i fire the shutter?

Thank you all again for your help and advice, I appreciate it very much!

Nope, portable Speedlights do not have modeling lamps, only the studio-type strobes come with 'em. If you're going to be using Speedlites you're going to have to just do some test shots to see what you've got, easiest way.

Thank you all for your help

I think the next step would be to determine how much power I need/can afford. As I said I started with a bag of speedlights, but have slowly and surly become frustrated with recycle times, placement, and power.

I am still learning as well (and for me, photography is an expensive hobby that I make money on from time to time).

Its easy for me to be in the mindset of "more power must be better" but I am also trying to be practical in my apporach to finally having a simple setup that I can use as well as learn on and grow with.

I recommend either of the lights below and you can grow with it.. the 200W kit or the 400W kit, based on your pocket.
Keep looking it's sometimes on sale lower than the price you see here:

Calumet Genesis 200W 2-Light kit
http://www.calumetphot​o.com/item/CF0502K1/

Calumet Genesis 400W 2-Light Kit
http://www.calumetphot​o.com/item/CF0514K1/

And you need this (Transmitter and Receiver set) to trigger the lights:
http://www.calumetphot​o.com/item/CF0048/

Mufutau

DeCeccoNET wrote in post #8291010
Thank you all for your help

I think the next step would be to determine how much power I need/can afford. As I said I started with a bag of speedlights, but have slowly and surly become frustrated with recycle times, placement, and power.

I am still learning as well (and for me, photography is an expensive hobby that I make money on from time to time).

Its easy for me to be in the mindset of "more power must be better" but I am also trying to be practical in my apporach to finally having a simple setup that I can use as well as learn on and grow with.

Genesis have good reputation here. Studio strobes are much easier to work with. You will learn fast as compared to Portable Flashes

DeCeccoNET wrote in post #8291010
Thank you all for your help

I think the next step would be to determine how much power I need/can afford. As I said I started with a bag of speedlights, but have slowly and surly become frustrated with recycle times, placement, and power.

I am still learning as well (and for me, photography is an expensive hobby that I make money on from time to time).

Its easy for me to be in the mindset of "more power must be better" but I am also trying to be practical in my apporach to finally having a simple setup that I can use as well as learn on and grow with.

Money is always an issue, granted. Keep in mind that you can dial more powerful lights down, and usually the cost difference in the next most powerful unit up isn't that great, and less expensive than having to sell used equipment because it wasn't powerful enough in order to buy newer and more powerful stuff.

I know there are several people here pushing the Calumet lights, which are very good units, but you might also want to look into the Alien Bees monolights. They get slammed a lot as not being "professional" but they're very cost-effective and they offer features like a two year warranty, 60 day satisfaction guarantee, 10% student discounts, and also have a very neat trade-up program. (quoting from their website):
"....Within two years of your purchase date, our factory will upgrade any AlienBees flash unit (B400,B800, B1600) to any higher power model for a charge of $25 plus the price difference between the original model and the model which you upgrade to...."

I own 2 AB800's and an AB400 and while I'm not a daily working studio pro running my lights 8 hours a day all day, I'm quite happy with their performance. As for duraibility, when I see a national children's photo chain like Picture People going to AB units for all of their studios I figure they must be reasonably reliable. Regardless of how you feel about such chain stores, the fact is they use their equipment hard, day in and day out. If a product can stand up to that amount of use then I can assume it's going to last.

Sorry if this sounds like an Alien Bee commercial (it's not, I have no affiliation with Paul Buff) but if money is an issue and you want good, reliable gear with a good company behind it, they're worth a look. And at $279/ea., AB800's are even cheaper than a 580EX or 580EXII Speedlite.

DennisW1 wrote in post #8291513
Sorry if this sounds like an Alien Bee commercial (it's not, I have no affiliation with Paul Buff) but if money is an issue and you want good, reliable gear with a good company behind it, they're worth a look. And at $279/ea., AB800's are even cheaper than a 580EX or 580EXII Speedlite.

No problem at all... it was threads about the ABs that actually got me thinking this way.

I also have stands and umbrellas, so I may not even have to go the package route.

With your setup, I am assuming your AB400 is being used as a rim/hair light? But would you have to dial the 2 800s down to half so that the lighting effects of the 400 are noticable?