Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff The Lounge 
Thread started 19 Nov 2006 (Sunday) 00:55
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

Red-Ringed Tupperware Party with (ineffective) Tin Foil Hats

 
this thread is locked
Lightstream
Yoda
14,915 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Cult of the Full Frame
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:07 |  #50731

timbernet wrote in post #3369912 (external link)
Heh - saw that this morning as well.... There is this thing called competition - but there is also quality. Competition is good, makes you make your quality better!

When I was 14'ish I would post my "computer services" in the local free computer magizine. I charged $7.50/hour... I got, 2-3 hate emails a month from "pros" saying I was ruining the market. I always relplied telling them that at my age, I didn't have the experiance and skills of the "pros", so I didn't feel it was right to price myself at $30-$100/hour...

That said! When you price yourself really low - you get all the cheap and stingy, weird, can't keep their apartment clean, OH MY GOSH I need a tetanus shot people!

Exactly. It's quality. When my last contract came up for renewal I asked for a bit more than usual figuring I deserved it. They said yes, because of the quality of service I'd rendered so far. It was a REALLY good feeling. I am glad that they too saw the light: they would actually have been penalizing themselves by hiring someone else who didn't know what they were doing, even if they came at a cheaper per-hour rate - because they'd spend MORE time fixing things, plus downtime costs. Better to give it to me - I go in, nail the problem faster than anybody else can (because I have been on board since zero hour and know exactly what is going on with this beast of a system - mostly learned the hard way, like I said, only a couple of us have been with it cradle-to-grave. Grave coming soon. Replacement being planned. Memo to follow. ;) ).

I learned, not too long ago, to stop chasing the bottom of the barrel, as you have rightly observed. You get all the wierdos and the freaks. You start there like everybody else I agree, but you have to work to get out of that zone fast.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lightstream
Yoda
14,915 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Cult of the Full Frame
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:12 |  #50732

tommykjensen wrote in post #3369917 (external link)
I was about to post my opinion in that thread but decided not to. Its the same al over. The discussion has been up so many times. Pro vs amateur/hobbyist.

I don't get why a good pro is afraid of the socalled wannabees that turn out rubbish (to use the OP's own words).

Hear, hear!

I would have posted my opinion in that thread that would have started a flame war, a threadwreck and then made more work for the mods to sort out. While causing a threadwreck can be fun, out of consideration for the kind mods I did not (since I like the mods anyway.. :) (especially the one sending me the Mk2 :D)

And you're right, the real pros don't care. Just like I said about us in IT, we don't care about the buck an hour kids just starting out. Some of them will make it and become pros eventually, I don't doubt that, the lightweights will get weeded out. I've seen so many get wiped out along the way vowing never to work in tech again.

It just seems that many photogs who want to go "PRO" need a big, harsh dose of BUSINESS realities. (even in my line you'd be surprised how much business I need to know and how much gets forcibly shovelled down my throat :p). Competition, startups, strengths/weaknesses/o​pportunities/threats (SWOT analysis :p) - all of this has to factor in the plan. It's not as simple as switch to RAW mode, pimp some pix and make money.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jon
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
69,628 posts
Likes: 227
Joined Jun 2004
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:12 as a reply to  @ post 3369917 |  #50733

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #3368748 (external link)
Thanks, but I'm too much of a gear head I think. :) I like helping people rather than just chatting away - hence my very low post count for the 5 years I've been here. :)

Mark

That's no excuse . . . You can do both . . .

theflyingkiwi wrote in post #3369118 (external link)
haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes

Oh?

Adcuz wrote in post #3369130 (external link)
You prefer 6 million posts with 1 quote?

Not I! And if I were to take that route I might even be ahead of CDS in total post count.


Jon
----------
Cocker Spaniels
Maryland and Virginia activities
Image Posting Rules and Image Posting FAQ
Report SPAM, Don't Answer It! (link)
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.
PAYPAL GIFT NO LONGER ALLOWED HERE

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lightstream
Yoda
14,915 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Cult of the Full Frame
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:24 |  #50734

ooo, another brilliant 'gem' of wisdom.

"be smart enough to realize you don't need full frame for landscapes, just step back a few feet"

Let's see...

Onto the freeway with 4 lanes of oncoming traffic each way at 65.

Back off a bridge, plunging a hundred feet in a move that may actually place me lower down the corporate ladder. Like, maybe somewhere in Hell.

Out of a hot air balloon, this time a couple of hundred feet. I may make a bigger crater. So will the 1D.

Out of the chopper just as the pilot calls "ATC, we are 1500 feet over the bay" (ooo, I get a water landing, this may be good)

Such wisdom, I love it. I would rather be called stupid, and be alive to share my full frame photos.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
timbernet
send a search party to Mount Hood
19,157 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:29 |  #50735

Lightstream wrote in post #3370059 (external link)
ooo, another brilliant 'gem' of wisdom.

"be smart enough to realize you don't need full frame for landscapes, just step back a few feet"


OR - get a UWA lens for your crop camera...




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lightstream
Yoda
14,915 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Cult of the Full Frame
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:31 |  #50736

timbernet wrote in post #3370088 (external link)
OR - get a UWA lens for your crop camera...

Exactly. What I was criticizing is the so often repeated 'foot zoom' advice. There are situations where this SIMPLY ISN'T POSSIBLE. MANY of the situations I find myself in do not permit me the LUXURY of a prime lens. Yes, to me it is rare that a subject presents itself that is well suited to a prime. Product photography is one occasion where I enjoy working without a zoom.

Someone once did a comparison test. Took a photo of his door or something, ISTR. Noted how many steps backwards and forwards it would take to achieve a 'foot zoom'. Think it may have been five steps backwards to equal some other focal length, seven steps forward to equal another FL. Said "This is great, foot zoom will do everything, it's only a few steps". Was reminded by another poster that such distances are RELATIVE. He may have been just a few feet from the door. If he was a few MILES from the mountain, those five and seven steps would have become five and seven MILES respectively. Time to buy new shoes.

Apart from that, 10-22 on the 350D works great. You don't need the world's best autofocus engine, at f/8 everything already *IS* in focus. (ex-owner of that superb combo speaking from experience). Not even asking someone to pack a 5D to do the job. There isn't a need to.

BTW, if you are not tremendously picky, the Sigma 10-20 has a wider image circle than most and thus is a good match for the 1.3X cameras. I shot it on my 5D to 'preview', mirror clears no problem but there is vignetting. Still the image circle is much wider than I expected.

Image quality is not quite on par with the 17-40 even though this is a sharp copy (friend owns it). Friends were all drooling over my 17-40 because I passed that around while trying the 10-20. Still, it is a reasonable UWA solution.

It's just that the OP was selling the 1DM3 as the be-all-end-all solution. It is not. Much as I respect that camera and at one point was hell bent on buying one, it isn't the be all end all. It has some magnificent strengths, but at the end of the day it still is, what it is.

Anyway rant off, I am going to sleep. After writing all of that I just wonder why I bother to listen to the trolls any more, knowing that they are trolls. Maybe I am stupid. I'll leave it at that. :(




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
aussieskier
just that stupid?
Avatar
10,608 posts
Joined Aug 2005
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:39 |  #50737

Ugh, I need a bath after going into the lens forum, but I like this one...

"The 17-40 is heavily compromised compared to the 17-55, limited to f/4 and having no IS."

Oh of course its HEAVILY compromised because of that :rolleyes:.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
timbernet
send a search party to Mount Hood
19,157 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:41 |  #50738

aussieskier wrote in post #3370165 (external link)
Ugh, I need a bath after going into the lens forum, but I like this one...

"The 17-40 is heavily compromised compared to the 17-55, limited to f/4 and having no IS."

Oh of course its HEAVILY compromised because of that :rolleyes:.

:rolleyes: but it isn't EF-S ;-)a




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
aussieskier
just that stupid?
Avatar
10,608 posts
Joined Aug 2005
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:43 |  #50739

Why are people so against selling stuff if they upgrade to full frame?!? I just don't get it. (That wasn't directed at you Scott, I know you don't, just as some of the the other comments in that thread...).




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lightstream
Yoda
14,915 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Cult of the Full Frame
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:47 |  #50740

aussieskier wrote in post #3370188 (external link)
Why are people so against selling stuff if they upgrade to full frame?!? I just don't get it. (That wasn't directed at you Scott, I know you don't, just as some of the the other comments in that thread...).

Yeah exactly, it would be as if you asked them to cut off a nut or something. They get all upset at me too, not realizing I have made the transition there *AND* back. AND there again! I sold my 10-22 for very little $$ loss.

(350D to 5D to 1D to 30D to 1DM2 - and bought one of EVERY $#@!ing EF-S focal length ever made!!)

(I say one of each FL because there are 4 variants of the 18-55. I have only owned one variant, although I do own TWO copies of that variant.)


Anyway speaking of the UWA, I will leave you folks with one more photo. Comments from RRTP regulars welcome.

Eureka Skydeck. I think this is (currently) the tallest tower in in the city. The 'really high up' city shots I posted a couple of weeks back - this is the tower. All 88 floors.

IMG NOTICE: [NOT AN IMAGE URL, NOT RENDERED INLINE]
http://pix.lightrefine​ries.org …IMAGES-NOT-ALLOWED-d3ef)-


Really off to bed now.

*wanders off reciting the Internet mantra: Never argue with a troll, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience*



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
Wait.. you can't unkill your own kill.
Avatar
57,738 posts
Likes: 4072
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Jun 13, 2007 09:48 |  #50741

Lightstream wrote in post #3369893 (external link)
NEWS FLASH!!!!!!

Petkal assaulted by tree shark!!

http://edition.cnn.com …any.animals.ap/​index.html (external link)

WTF!!!! Killer squirrels. It’s the end of the world I tell ya.
.


Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Belmondo
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
42,735 posts
Likes: 15
Joined Jul 2003
Location: 92210
     
Jun 13, 2007 10:21 |  #50742

timbernet wrote in post #3370178 (external link)
:rolleyes: but it isn't EF-S ;-)a

Hmmmph. There's something else it doesn't have.

People who use the 17-40L lens are clearly disadvantaged.


I'm not short. I'm concentrated awesome!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Belmondo
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
42,735 posts
Likes: 15
Joined Jul 2003
Location: 92210
     
Jun 13, 2007 10:24 |  #50743

Lightstream wrote in post #3370111 (external link)
Exactly. What I was criticizing is the so often repeated 'foot zoom' advice.

My goal in life is to never have to take a step forwards or backwards. Just plop me down in a lawn chair with all my lenses, and I'll have the perfect lens for the focal length I need at the moment.

I'm getting close.


I'm not short. I'm concentrated awesome!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jamie ­ Holladay
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
21,557 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Nov 2005
Location: Gadsden, Alabama, USA
     
Jun 13, 2007 10:50 as a reply to  @ Belmondo's post |  #50744

Good MOOOOOOrning All!

thanks again for the help yesterday. I really appreciate it.
here is a link (external link)to the one I think we are going to use.

Maureen Souza wrote in post #3368354 (external link)
Hi guys! Good news. The bride & groom were thrilled with the wedding scrapbook I made them.....they called today and were going on & on. The bride said she cries everytime she looks at it (I hope that is a good thing:rolleyes: ;) )

I said HI.

Lightstream wrote in post #3369798 (external link)
Hmm? Very soon it will be Red Ringed Oregon Party :p

Gear talk: I just sent Paypal to Chief.

I will keep quiet now. :p

Congrats on the purchase!

Lightstream wrote in post #3369855 (external link)
https://photography-on-the.net …php?p=3369179#p​ost3369179

"omg omg I'm so pissed because some n00b shot pics and gave them to the band for free so I am not going to get paid"

I suppose we in the IT sector can laugh because every year, we see a new crop of 12 year old kids who discover a keyboard, 'do stuff for free and take the bread out of our mouths'.

We learned to deal with this a long time ago. Besides, since when was an income a god given right? Are photogs the only exception who don't have to EARN IT like every one of us has to?

Anyway.... I am a volunteer event photog.

I shoot stuff, do a quality job, AND GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE. And I am proud of it.

I'll leave my $.02 at this. I no longer give stuff away. I do however put what I shoot out there. If my friends want it they can purchase it. A hobby it maybe (maybe a little more), but the Easter Bunny did not put all that stuff in my back pack and the Thoothe Fairy is not bringing me a MKIII. So every little bit helps.


The Site  (external link)The Gallery  (external link)The Gear (external link)

"If you really want something done, ask a busy person." Toms wife

Nothing is more Exhilarating than combining my two passions, the speed of a shutter, the speed of a car; What a Rush! ~ me

What stands between you and greatness sits between your ears, not in your camera bag. ~ John Thawley

You know I can't spell just sound it out. ~ me

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Permagrin
High Priestess of all I survey
Avatar
77,915 posts
Likes: 21
Joined Aug 2006
Location: day dreamin'
     
Jun 13, 2007 11:05 as a reply to  @ Jamie Holladay's post |  #50745

Moooooorning everyone ;)

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #3368748 (external link)
Thanks, but I'm too much of a gear head I think. :) I like helping people rather than just chatting away - hence my very low post count for the 5 years I've been here. :)

Mark

Hey! We help people a lot in here...really. And the best part is that we're nice to them too :D

Lightstream wrote in post #3369798 (external link)
Gear talk: I just sent Paypal to Chief.

I will keep quiet now. :p

Cool Yoda!

tommykjensen wrote in post #3369917 (external link)
I don't get why a good pro is afraid of the socalled wannabees that turn out rubbish (to use the OP's own words).

I'm afraid I did post there. I can't see anywhere where the OP actually SAW the guy's photos...it appears he just assumed they were bad because of the gear!

I think it's possible that perhaps he's a wanna be pro who's irritated that someone is swiping that end of the market...because you are right, a real pro already has a market...

aussieskier wrote in post #3370165 (external link)
Ugh, I need a bath after going into the lens forum, but I like this one...

"The 17-40 is heavily compromised compared to the 17-55, limited to f/4 and having no IS."

Oh of course its HEAVILY compromised because of that :rolleyes:.

LOL...have you seen the threads about the 17-55 lately? So many of them say "my 17-55 stopped after two months...or after 1 year it's completely broken...or there is so much dust in here...." Yeah, I've had my 17-40 for almost two years...no dust, great color, I shoot indoors in low light with it all the time w/o IS & get great results....I'm clearly at a disadvantage....:rolleyes:

belmondo wrote in post #3370400 (external link)
Hmmmph. There's something else it doesn't have.

People who use the 17-40L lens are clearly disadvantaged.

hey! If I'm disadvantaged, can I apply for a grant? (is new gear on the horizon? tune in next time for "Government funding? or Increase the defecit?" *musical interlude* dunna dunna dunna dunnaa BATMAN!)


.. It's Permie's world, we just live in it! ~CDS

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

4,960,031 views & 0 likes for this thread, 136 members have posted to it.
Red-Ringed Tupperware Party with (ineffective) Tin Foil Hats
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff The Lounge 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
2931 guests, 140 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.