Volleyball photos + an issue

Let me suggest a different approach.

1. Agree with her that the shorts might be a concern for these young ladies. Frame the choice of uniform as the issue. Be empathetic.

2. Suggest that she approach the AD about her uniform concerns.

3. State your goal to photograph this athletic contest and stay out of any uniform dispute.

4. Tell her that, at her request, any picture(s) of her daughter that she finds objectionable will be removed from the site. No questions asked. [Parents won't buy a picture they don't like anyway. Limit her influence to pictures of her child only. You may want to preemptively remove them.]

5. Explain that once the school administration chooses the uniform, they decide how the ladies will appear. Photos are only the messengers recording how the ladies present themselves in public.

6. Suggest that if there is a picture that the parents would like to purchase, but with a different crop, you would be happy to crop that photo differently.

As much as possible, appear to be on her side and redirect her objection to the administration. Let the AD be the 'bad guy' not you. After all, the issue is the uniform. Think cooperative, not adversarial. Stop taking pictures of her daughter in the future. Her line about "featured crotches" is a red flag. She appears to be looking for a fight. Don't let it be with you.

BTW, I like your pics!

Thanks so much for the replies, everyone. A somewhat varied response, but at least it's clear that she's a nutcase. I'll update this thread with any further developments.

There are those whom my not agree with what I did but I actually spent a lot of time in photoshop. These shorts can and do reveal too much. I couldn't, in good taste, put them online. Mine were much more revealing but as fast as the action happens with volleyball - you don't have time to frame, align and shoot whilst look at what is revealing or not! Just MHO!

Zivnuska wrote in post #8342974
Let me suggest a different approach.

1. Agree with her that the shorts might be a concern for these young ladies. Frame the choice of uniform as the issue. Be empathetic.

2. Suggest that she approach the AD about her uniform concerns.

3. State your goal to photograph this athletic contest and stay out of any uniform dispute.

4. Tell her that, at her request, any picture(s) of her daughter that she finds objectionable will be removed from the site. No questions asked. [Parents won't buy a picture they don't like anyway. Limit her influence to pictures of her child only. You may want to preemptively remove them.]

5. Explain that once the school administration chooses the uniform, they decide how the ladies will appear. Photos are only the messengers recording how the ladies present themselves in public.

6. Suggest that if there is a picture that the parents would like to purchase, but with a different crop, you would be happy to crop that photo differently.

As much as possible, appear to be on her side and redirect her objection to the administration. Let the AD be the 'bad guy' not you. After all, the issue is the uniform. Think cooperative, not adversarial. Stop taking pictures of her daughter in the future. Her line about "featured crotches" is a red flag. She appears to be looking for a fight. Don't let it be with you.

BTW, I like your pics!

Where's the fun in doing all that. Just kidding.

Excellent response and definitely the best way to handle it. I hope my original post was read with the high level of sarcasm I intended. To continue with the sarcasm, #6 should read "If they want a picture but with a different crop they will need to use Photoshop of something similar after the steal it from your website."

Magic 24 wrote in post #8343030
There are those whom my not agree with what I did but I actually spent a lot of time in photoshop. These shorts can and do reveal too much. I couldn't, in good taste, put them online. Mine were much more revealing but as fast as the action happens with volleyball - you don't have time to frame, align and shoot whilst look at what is revealing or not! Just MHO!

My opinion is 99.9% of the time if you have to edit a sports photo to desexualize it, it should just be deleted. This applies to the OP's situation as well. It is impossible to not have shots that actually show the entire athlete. EVERYONE knows what to expect from volleyball uniforms and sometimes you will capture someone in an unflattering way. Just delete it like you would a shot of a great dunk you missed because of a refs big A.

There is always another play.

1. Agree with her that the shorts might be a concern for these young ladies. Frame the choice of uniform as the issue. Be empathetic.

This is probably a line by her and not an actual concern of a majority of the players like she is trying to make it out. Sure some girls might have an issue, and I've coached a couple who did, but to agree with it's a lot of the girls is just fueling her fire on something that is probably not true.

Different situation but I had a parent complain about something that did not happen how she said it did. She told the AD "all the girls" so he in turn interviewed my entire team. It was found not one, not even the parents daughter thought how the parent did. However, her daughter told her mom she agreed and the "others do to". Have seen that happen more than a few times.

2. Suggest that she approach the AD about her uniform concerns.

Could be more than just the AD, uniforms are usually decided by the section, league, or state and the AD's just follow that rule when ordering. I've only seen one team that played against us that did not wear spandex and it was just the league had different policies. In my first school I coached the younger girls wore shorts but JV/Var HAD to wear spandex. The AD can however go to the meetings and bring it up as a concern but you won't see it changed any time soon.

3. State your goal to photograph this athletic contest and stay out of any uniform dispute.

Yup

4. Tell her that, at her request, any picture(s) of her daughter that she finds objectionable will be removed from the site. No questions asked. [Parents won't buy a picture they don't like anyway. Limit her influence to pictures of her child only. You may want to preemptively remove them.]

This can be a PITA to try and go through and find one girl through large galleries unless you know who it is. Sure remove them, for a fee. Make sure it's also known if it features another girl then it won't be removed. There is no obligation to remove them.

5. Explain that once the school administration chooses the uniform, they decide how the ladies will appear. Photos are only the messengers recording how the ladies present themselves in public.

Yup

6. Suggest that if there is a picture that the parents would like to purchase, but with a different crop, you would be happy to crop that photo differently.

Yup

As much as possible, appear to be on her side and redirect her objection to the administration. Let the AD be the 'bad guy' not you. After all, the issue is the uniform. Think cooperative, not adversarial. Stop taking pictures of her daughter in the future. Her line about "featured crotches" is a red flag. She appears to be looking for a fight. Don't let it be with you.

Nope, not when it's making someone else look bad. A photographer is there to capture an event, not fuel the fire of some nut job. Especially when she goes running to the AD saying the photog agrees with her and the AD is the one who decides if you ever shoot there again. She's definitely looking for a fight and jumping on her side when she's wrong is not the right approach. All you can do is say it's not your job about the uniforms, it's your job to take images of what is going on - that's it. Agreeing/disagreeing is not in your job description for this because it will cause problems. Fighting her she'll cause you problems, agreeing she'll cause you problems with others.

I agree. She is an idiot. If she has that big of a problem with the shorts, she should not let her daughter play. The are a part of the game, plain & simple.
BTW - you shots are great! VB is very difficult to shoot.

Why keep the pictures of her daughter on the web site if Mom wants them off? The idea of charging her to remove the pictures will put the photographer dead center in the middle of the dispute.

Uniform issue: Problem for the AD

GWC wants Mom to pay to remove child photos from internet: Potential Photog problem.

You'll always run into trouble with parents when it comes to situations like this. And unfortunately they'll always be this irrational about it.

You're certainly not at fault in this scenario, so I'd follow the advice of the majority of posters in this thread and just don't worry about it.

Aparently that parent hasn't been to any competition cheerleading events. Or if she did, she would have a beef with them too. I think you said the right thing. You are there to capture the action of the game. Same goes for track and field events, tennis...the list goes on.

I think everyone has summed it up well: there's nothing wrong with these images. When shooting sports, you sometimes have to delete or edit pictures to remain tasteful, but these do not even come close to crossing the line.

Bryan

Didn't they film Elvis above the waist in the 50's ??

Maybe the mother would be more comfortable if they dressed like this?

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I'm a father of a volleyball player, who also takes photos of the games. I do not see any problem with your pictures, the problem is with the coaches, club or organization that dictates the uniform. I agree with another poster that the parents as a whole should voice an opinion to what is acceptable as a uniform.

Please also give some latitude to this mother if you think she needs it. The reason I ask this is because I think I understand her position. I think it was more of a frustration, concern, and worry all rapped up in one ball of anxiety, and you where the easy target to lash out at. You hear about perverted people stalking children, young adults or even adults at certain functions, to fulfill a certain pleasure. As parents we are always protecting our young, and when they are placed in a vulnerable position such as this uniform, we might get a little anxious. We don't want to stop them playing a sport they love, but we worry about the little things which we sometimes cannot control.

Then again she could just be a nut, a total nut and fruit case.

Bryn

Bryn,

Well said.

Bryan

bps wrote in post #8354475
Bryn,

Well said.

Bryan

+1 agreed.

I also thnk the shorts are disgusting, but if they bother the mom that much don't let the girl play. I have done many VB matches and the parents all seemed grateful to ave the photos. Guess I was just lucky.