Printing Help!

Ok, I am somewhat new to photography (about 8 months), but have taken a few thousand photos already. I feel like I am starting to figure this stuff out. I want to print my photos out, mostly 8x10's for my family and friends, and have been having a heck of a time doing it. I have researched the different color settings, calibrated my monitor, edited my photos, and spent quite a bit of money thowing photos away that were printed by Costco. It took me awhile to discover that for me I was having problems with Aperture only uploading the previews to online sites and Costco, so my prints came back rather drab and dark. I have since switch over to Lightroom, which I am starting to figure a little bit out...I had a pretty good grasp on Aperture, even spent 3 hours on the phone with the techs at NIK software helping me to figure out that it was indeed just the previews that were being uploaded to Costco. Anyway, long story short...my prints stink from Costco. Yesterday I had 8 8x10's that had a white line running down all of my prints, rather than go back and spend 30 minutes inline arguing for $10 in prints, I sent some to a different Costco, and have discovered that my 8x10's look nothing like my 4x6's. They are WAY darker, and have what appears to be dust marks on the photos, again in the same spot on every photo but the 4x6's. So my questions are, is there a reason why the 8x10's are so much darker than the 4x6's? Is it due to the cropping? If so, I can just order 8x12's and then just cut them myself. HOWEVER, I am leary of spending another $1 let alone $20 per small group of 8x10's I need.

My next question is, would I be better off buying a printer and printing myself at home? I do realize that it costs quite a bit or a lot more, but it's not like I am going to be printing out hundreds of photos a month. I may only do about 1-200 a year. I would like to think I would have more control over how they are printed, and could work through the process just one photo at a time instead of sending 30 to Costco. If so, what would be a decent not super expensive printer to buy and operate (ink) and how about paper?

Last but not least, should I just find another online printer to do the work, and if so, and experiences? Sorry for the long post but I am just trying to vent a little, and would say that I am starting to really love photography, but this whole printing thing is starting to wear on me after trying to get it straight for the past 6 months.....Thanks in advance...

Sorry about your struggles, but you are not alone -- the farther you go in your photography the more challenges you are likely to face, and this is a common one.

One thing a bit alarming -- what do you mean, there was a white strip running down your 8x10s?? If you mean there is a white stripe running down the middle of the photo, then that means that their printer is seriously malfunctioning and they owe you prints.

If, though (and I suspect this is likely the case) there is a white "border" line along the side of your picture, the answer is most likely that you are trying to print an image shot at the aspect ratio of your camera, which is 2:3, meaning that it will fully print at 8x12 but if you try to print at 8x10 or fully on an 8 1/2x11 sheet of paper it will be more narrow (on the longer sides) than what you are trying to print, hence the white stripe.

To print an 8x10, you need to crop to 4:5 (or specify 8x10). To do a "full bleed" on an 8 1/2x11 sheet, you need to do a custom crop to match an 8 1/2x11 print dimensions.

As far as Costco and dark prints, one thing will be invaluable: you need to calibrate your monitor, at least adjusting the monitor luminance to an accurate setting, which will give pictures viewed on you computer both a "standard" color rendition and a "standard" level of brightness, which will both give you better images for printing/matching as well as better/more reliable images for sharing over the Web and mail and such.

Working with Lightroom is different from working with Photoshop, in that we can't use a printer profile to preview the "proof" output on our screen, so the next step would be to work with Costco as to the best way of getting these prints to your standards. Put together a group of sample shots containing a variety of tones and color mixes and have Costco print them out (after you have calibrated or at least toned down the brightness of your monitor) and judge for yourself what further adjustments you need. And, make sure that Costco is not using any automatic color correction on this printer.

This brings up an interesting anomaly -- why were the 4x6 prints fine, but the 8x10s dark? I could be mistaken, but my guess is that they were using 2 different printers, and color/brightness correction was turned on with the 4x6 printer, but not by the 8x10 printer. I could be wrong -- I've never used Costco myself.

As far as having a home printer, well, I have two photo-dedicated printers myself and they are good for anything from 4x6 to 13x19 prints. Happy to have them. If you are serious about getting good print results, I'd encourage you to go ahead and buy a $250 photo printer (the ink is expensive) and use it to "proof" your prints and do single prints before sending to Costco or a lab for more extensive jobs. But, to get the best results, do a bit of research and make sure you get a printer for which "ICC profiles" are provided. You can put these into your system for Lightroom, Photoshop and some other applications to load and use to manage your prints.

I'm sure there are Costco users out there who can help fill in the blanks!

Hope this helps a bit.

Yes this helps. I have calibrated my monitor, in fact I do it weekly, so I feel pretty comfortable with the way I am sending them the photos, although who knows! The white line I spoke of was not along the sides due to the crop ( I discovered that one about 6 months ago on my first print). The white line was just off to the side of center and clearly caused by their printer. You are right in saying that they should owe me prints, but I just don't want to spend my time and frustration arguing for my $10 in bad prints.

At first I thought the brightness was an issue due to the crop, but I had some 8x12's that I did not crop and they came out with the same result, so I would agree with you in that they are using different printers, but that should still not happen. I have probably thrown about $100 worth of photos in the trash from there and the few I have kept have been smaller 4x6's that I just gave to friends and was not crazy about them either. As for color correction, I have that feature turned off, so they are not correcting them at all. I was tempted to try a print with it, but then I feel like that would be defeating the whole purpose of me editing and enhancing my own photos on the $1K worth of software I have purchased. I am really starting to think that printing them myself is the way to go. I like the idea of a printer in the $250 range, and I know ink is pricey, but for the amount of printing I am going to do, hopefully it will last awhile. Besides, when I give a framed print to a family member or friend or pass by one down my hallway, I want to be really proud of it. Especially since I have spent a lot of money on a camera and lenses, and spent countless hours of research and editing, having a $5-$10 print hanging on my wall that I am proud of is a heck of a lot better than having a $1.99 print that I just don't like.....

I guess it's time to start researching printers. I like that yours will go up to 13x19, as Ideally I would like to print larger photos, although I would not mind working with an online printing facility for just one photo at a time. I have Aperture, Lightroom, PS3, DPP, and Photo Mechanic, and I am just starting to switch over to Lightroom as I stated earlier. So when you say to look for a printer which ICC profiles are provided, I am assuming this easily matches the color scale between my Monitor, Lightroom, and Printer? If so, any suggestions on printers? Thanks again....

OK, since I haven't worked with Costco I can't follow up on that so much, but I'm still curious about the dark prints. Could you post a shot here that looks evenly exposed on your monitor but prints dark from Costco, and give some specifics of what you're seeing?

As far as home printers, I can't give model specifics since I've had mine for several years and haven't shopped around or researched around.

The basics are, you can get a letter-size decent quality photo inkjet for the neighborhood of say $250 that takes photo-quality ink and top-quality papers. The downsides are, of course, you are limited to 8 1/2 x 11 paper and it will be more inefficient/spendy on ink, using typically smaller cartridges that require replacing more often than you'd like and typically combine a number of blacks/colors in each cartridge to save space but require replacing whenever one color/black well runs dry.

All that being said, I use such a printer for 4x6 and 8x10/8 1/2x11 prints because it's convenient, stocked with paper and ink, and with the small quantities that I print the ink lasts. I use it to proof larger prints as well, because the printer uses the same ink and technology as my larger printer.

When you go large, your options increase. You can get ink cartridges in larger sizes and discreet colors (some are going up to 10 cartridges) which dramatically cuts down on price per print as well as gives more efficient ink usage. This is the ticket for printing in quantity. These printers have the technology to use the finest inks and papers, many will take roll paper, and some even allow you to set up a continuous ink system where you fill ink containers as needed rather than replacing cartridges. These printers should be researched before buying, you're starting in the $500-$1k range plus ink and your choices are much more varied. With the smaller desktop, you can sometimes pick up a good on one sale at a big store like Best Buy (but better to do your homework and not do an impulse buy that you'll regret.

The point of getting two printers of the same technology was easy for me, because I worked for Hewlett-Packard for a number of years and got one of these printers for free and one at a deep discount. What you go for depends on your pocketbook, of course.

But the final thing here is the matter of ICC profiles. Most "consumer" printers -- either the cheap printer that is primarily designed for churning out paper prints or the All-In-One printer/copyier/scanne​r/fax -- will likely have no ICC profile. The ICC profile is a text file with items that match a printer and ink combination to a specific paper/papers. These are either provided by the printer/paper mfg (such as Epson Printers and inks with specific Epson papers) or by special paper makers matched to the given printer/ink combo. The purpose of these papers is to allow the printer software, whether the printer driver or software such as Lightroom or Photoshop, to process and print an image in a way appropriate for the paper type and, if applicable, the specific ink combination. Typically, papers will show up in a printer driver but it's not clear whether an external profile is available to software such as Lightroom. If you install a printer software/driver, you can then check Lightroom to see if the profile shows up in the print module, but if it doesn't you may be stuck with Lightroom unable to "manage printing". This is why I suggest making sure in your research that a printer uses external ICC profiles rather than just built in driver profiles.

Another use of an ICC profile is if you go into a more sophisticated editor such as Photoshop CS4/3. In Photoshop, when you are preparing a file to print, you will typically perform what is called "soft proofing", where you go to a display that shows the picture rendered according to the printer profile you choose. It's very useful in ensuring that your image prints properly.

One thing that I may have missed is a feature new to Lightroom 2: the Print to File options. What I'm not sure of is whether this print to file applies the profile in a way that could affect, say, your Costco printing. Let's say you download the Costco profile for the printer and paper they are using (you can get these online) and in the printer module select that profile and select Lightroom manages color. Will Lightroom produce a file that will work well with the Costco printer, assuming they have color management turned off? I don't have LR2, and am not sure of the answer to this, so if anyone who knows manages to read through this without falling asleep, I'd say this is an important question.

Well, that's it for now!

Wow, first off thanks for all the help. I am definately leaning towards getting a printer and tring to print myself, however I do have a bunch of research to do. I actually have a decent all in one printer that seems to do ok, but I would like a more dedicated photo printer that I can turn out some nice 4x6's and 8x10's that will look very close to what my monitor is producing.

Here are just two of my prints. It is most prevalent with my BW's but it's also pretty bad with the color too. Thanks again for all your help

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Tell them to quit running auto-correct on your photos.

I had to use Sam's club for an order once. I had used them for quick 20x30's and was actually quite pleased so I had no worries when I ordered some 5x7's and 4x6's for a T&I that I did. I uploaded the full sized file and used their software to do the cropping for the different sizes. The 4x6's looked way different than the 5x7's. They were so bad that my wife noticed it immediately as she took them out of the package.

Same exact file and the prints weren't even close to the same, simply because of the crops.

OK, when you get these printed, what appears to be dark (other than the legs a bit lower on the B&W)?

The whole print looks evenly at least 2 stops underexposed.


As for the auto correction, I have that function turned off, at least according to their website and the paperwork when I pick them up. At first I thought it may have been the crops too, but today I printed a few 8x12's that did not need cropping and I had the same issues.....I think I am done with Costco, at this point I would rather spend the money and time into researching and getting a decent printer for my house.....

Well, they didn't look bad to me. Do you have a place nearby where you can test some things out while you are shopping for a printer? Also, there are other places online with good reputations. Costco seems to have a bit of an uneven rep -- some people get excellent results, others not so much.

So far at this point my options are either to keep working with Costco as I am sure the capability for good prints is there, or I can try Walgreen's or other online vendors. I did send some through Apple a few days ago, but I have yet to get them. However I did send them through Aperture, so I am a bit leary of their results....I am just getting a little tired of throwing away $20-$25 here and there, but it's more of the frustration of wasting all my time trying to adjust photos and figure it all out. There is something comforting knowing that if I spend a little more money up front and also in the long run, that some of the headaches will go away, as hopefully the process will be a little more streamlined.....Person​ally I would love to just upload them to an online sight and have them send to my door, but the patience and frustration is driving me bonkers.....time to start doing some searches on printers.....

Bummer, looks like the Canon 9000 is a decent printer, and Adorama has a deal going where if you buy the printer and a 50D you get a $400 rebate which makes the printer only $50. Too bad I have a brand new 50D being delivered to my house tomorrow from Amazon.

Printing on a good photo quality printer at home can offer better quality than anything I've ever seen from a lab. But its not a cheap option, in fact it is the most expensive option. It also needs a good understanding of the various issues involved, very much the same issues that are causing grief in this case with Costco.

I print at home because I remain in control of the operation. If it comes out dark, or dull, or flat, etc.............. it is always my fault and I have to resolve it, theres no one else to blame. But get everything right and the quality is superb.

If you intend to continue to use a lab, swopping around in the hope that magically the prints will improve is likely to be a lost cause. Better I believe to work with one lab and work out a suitable workflow with them, using whatever profiles are required. It may seem like too much hassle to chase $10 or $100 of poor prints, but it's a learning curve you both must go through.

lemme be the first to say, i got my first order from mpix in yesterday and i am amazed at the quality of their prints. i previously used ritz/wolf camera and the quality was good but mpix is better. only problem was one print out of 22 came out dark and orange. they reprinted and shipped it to me. i would recommend mpix if you dont want to spend lots of money on home printer/ink (more ink & paper than anything)

After doing some research I have learned that printing at home is going to bit quite pricey, and maybe I am better off trying to find one good lab and at least stick with them and work it out for awhile. I have actually been thinking about Mpix as I have heard other members mention good things about them. Besides I believe they specialize in photo printing, where Costco specializes in just about everything, and I think trying to work with them may be a little more time consuming and troubling. I think I am going to send some photos through to Mpix later today, or I may just give them a call and tell them what's been going on so far, and that maybe they can double check my photos before they print them, to see if it's happening on my end.....Thanks again to all of you for the great advice.

jakeg, i had my first order with pix monday, got here yesterday and out of 22 prints only one was off, but this print has given me the same problems at costco, ritz, and pitmann photo down here in miami so i dont blame mpix. they have fixed it and it will be here tommorow free of charge.

i work from a laptop (albeit it a pretty top of the line laptop) with a matte monitor (not glossy) and my brightness is usually pretty high because i work in bright areas such as my room or at school. i was worried that not being calibrated would make my prints come out dark as so many have complained about but that was not the case. i do my PP all in CS4, mainly only ACR and the saved jpeg is what i send to print. idk how much correction was done on MPIX's side but i can say the prints are much closer to my monitor than ritz ever was.

good luck.

p.s. shipping is the only downfall, make sure to place larger orders so you get more for your shipping or register for mpixpro for 4.00 flat next dayshipping