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Thread started 05 Aug 2009 (Wednesday) 12:27
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Daylight photo fluorescent in cheap desk lamp for ghetto bg light?

 
BigWebb83
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Aug 05, 2009 12:27 |  #1

i have the calumet genesis 2 light set and I'm really enjoying learning the whole lighting thing with that along with my reflector. I'm quickly reallizing the need to light the background seperately. I'm in the midst of trying to find a good deal on a used monolight for the background but I was wondering if, in the meantime, a fluorescent "daylight photo" bulb in an adjustable fixture would be acceptable just to give the background a little light along with my key and fill strobes? let me know what you guys think....


Here is one that I was looking at..

http://cgi.ebay.com …314b&_trksid=p3​286.c0.m14 (external link)


-Daniel


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bobbyz
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Aug 05, 2009 12:32 |  #2

Say you shooting at ISO100, f8, 1/200. will this continuous light register on those settings?

If you need hairlight, use a speed light if you got one. Or buy used manual flash. Or better, you one of your lights as bg light, use other form main with reflector for fill. Or place main/fill so that you don't need a hairlight.


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jemersonl83
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Aug 05, 2009 12:33 |  #3

That'll probably work ok. What color bg are you lighting? I used a 500w work light to light a white seamless before I got strobes for it.


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BigWebb83
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Aug 05, 2009 12:48 |  #4

using a greyish muslin


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gonzogolf
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Aug 05, 2009 13:46 |  #5

Remember that fluorescent bulb have a cycle, if your exposure time is less than a full cycle, approx 1/60 of a second then you only get part of the cycle and inconsistent color. I'd suggest finding any old flash you can find with a cheap trigger.




  
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BigWebb83
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Aug 05, 2009 15:30 |  #6

what do you mean cycle? I thought it was a constantly burning light?


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gonzogolf
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Aug 05, 2009 15:50 |  #7

I'm not an electrical engineer so I dont know the exact causes but I've read where flash experts lament that its very hard to gel a flash to match fluorescent lights for this very reason.

Here is what wikipedia says about the flicker.

Fluorescent lamps using a magnetic mains frequency ballast do not give out a steady light; instead, they flicker at twice the supply frequency. This results in fluctuations not only with light output but color temperature as well [18] which may pose problems for photography and people who are sensitive to the flicker. Even among persons not sensitive to light flicker, a stroboscopic effect can be noticed, where something spinning at just the right speed may appear stationary if illuminated solely by a single fluorescent lamp. This effect is eliminated by paired lamps operating on a lead-lag ballast. Unlike a true strobe lamp, the light level drops in appreciable time and so substantial "blurring" of the moving part would be evident.

In some circumstances, fluorescent lamps operated at mains frequency can also produce flicker at the mains frequency (50 or 60 Hz) itself, which is noticeable by more people. This can happen in the last few hours of tube life when the cathode emission coating at one end is almost run out, and that cathode starts having difficulty emitting enough electrons into the gas fill, resulting in slight rectification and hence uneven light output in positive and negative going mains cycles. Mains frequency flicker can also sometimes be emitted from the very ends of the tubes, if each tube electrode produces slightly different light output pattern on each half-cycle. Flicker at mains frequency is more noticeable in the peripheral vision than it is in the center of gaze.

New fluorescent lamps may show a twisting spiral pattern of light in a part of the lamp. This effect is due to loose cathode material and usually disappears after a few hours of operation.[19]

Electromagnetic ballasts may also cause problems for video recording as there can be a 'beat effect' between the periodic reading of a camera's sensor and the fluctuations in intensity of the fluorescent lamp. When other devices that also flicker, such as CRT-based computer monitors, are operated under fluorescent lighting, the flicker may become much more noticeable.[citation needed]

Full-size and compact fluorescent lamps using high-frequency electronic ballasts do not usually produce visible light flicker, since the phosphor persistence is longer than a half cycle of the higher operation frequency. Operating frequencies of electronic ballasts are selected to avoid interference with infrared remote controls. However, poor quality (or failing) electronic ballasts operating from AC mains may have insufficient Reservoir Capacitance and/or have poor Constant current regulator, thereby producing considerable 100/120 Hz modulation as well as the high-frequency switching modulation.

The non-visible 100 Hz - 120 Hz flicker from fluorescent tubes powered by electromagnetic ballasts are associated with headaches and eyestrain. Individuals with high flicker fusion threshold are particularly affected by electromagnetic ballasts: their EEG alpha waves are markedly attenuated and they perform office tasks with greater speed and decreased accuracy.[20] Ordinary people have better reading performance using high frequency (20 kHz – 60 kHz) electronic ballasts than electromagnetic ballasts.[21]




  
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zaathrus
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Aug 05, 2009 17:00 |  #8

Good information there. Unless it's a high frequency fluorescent, don't bother.


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BigWebb83
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Aug 05, 2009 19:30 |  #9

gonzogolf wrote in post #8405540 (external link)
I'm not an electrical engineer so I dont know the exact causes but I've read where flash experts lament that its very hard to gel a flash to match fluorescent lights for this very reason.

Here is what wikipedia says about the flicker.

Fluorescent lamps using a magnetic mains frequency ballast do not give out a steady light; instead, they flicker at twice the supply frequency. This results in fluctuations not only with light output but color temperature as well [18] which may pose problems for photography and people who are sensitive to the flicker. Even among persons not sensitive to light flicker, a stroboscopic effect can be noticed, where something spinning at just the right speed may appear stationary if illuminated solely by a single fluorescent lamp. This effect is eliminated by paired lamps operating on a lead-lag ballast. Unlike a true strobe lamp, the light level drops in appreciable time and so substantial "blurring" of the moving part would be evident.

In some circumstances, fluorescent lamps operated at mains frequency can also produce flicker at the mains frequency (50 or 60 Hz) itself, which is noticeable by more people. This can happen in the last few hours of tube life when the cathode emission coating at one end is almost run out, and that cathode starts having difficulty emitting enough electrons into the gas fill, resulting in slight rectification and hence uneven light output in positive and negative going mains cycles. Mains frequency flicker can also sometimes be emitted from the very ends of the tubes, if each tube electrode produces slightly different light output pattern on each half-cycle. Flicker at mains frequency is more noticeable in the peripheral vision than it is in the center of gaze.

New fluorescent lamps may show a twisting spiral pattern of light in a part of the lamp. This effect is due to loose cathode material and usually disappears after a few hours of operation.[19]

Electromagnetic ballasts may also cause problems for video recording as there can be a 'beat effect' between the periodic reading of a camera's sensor and the fluctuations in intensity of the fluorescent lamp. When other devices that also flicker, such as CRT-based computer monitors, are operated under fluorescent lighting, the flicker may become much more noticeable.[citation needed]

Full-size and compact fluorescent lamps using high-frequency electronic ballasts do not usually produce visible light flicker, since the phosphor persistence is longer than a half cycle of the higher operation frequency. Operating frequencies of electronic ballasts are selected to avoid interference with infrared remote controls. However, poor quality (or failing) electronic ballasts operating from AC mains may have insufficient Reservoir Capacitance and/or have poor Constant current regulator, thereby producing considerable 100/120 Hz modulation as well as the high-frequency switching modulation.

The non-visible 100 Hz - 120 Hz flicker from fluorescent tubes powered by electromagnetic ballasts are associated with headaches and eyestrain. Individuals with high flicker fusion threshold are particularly affected by electromagnetic ballasts: their EEG alpha waves are markedly attenuated and they perform office tasks with greater speed and decreased accuracy.[20] Ordinary people have better reading performance using high frequency (20 kHz – 60 kHz) electronic ballasts than electromagnetic ballasts.[21]

thanks,

I will either buy another of the calumet genesis lights (single this time) or an alien bees b400 (i think). in the meantime i'm going to tr using a reflector as the fill and the other light as the background light.


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Curtis ­ N
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Aug 05, 2009 20:12 |  #10

In order for any continuous light to compete with strobes, you need either an extremely powerful light (like the sun) or a very slow shutter speed that would require a tripod and an inanimate subject.


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Aug 06, 2009 00:53 |  #11

How about using one light and a reflector for your subject and the second light on the background. Your reflector can be anything, as simple as a piece of poster board.


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BigWebb83
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Aug 06, 2009 06:31 |  #12

Titus213 wrote in post #8408492 (external link)
How about using one light and a reflector for your subject and the second light on the background. Your reflector can be anything, as simple as a piece of poster board.


thats the route i think i'm going to go for right now. I've actually got a 42"" reflector so hopefully that will be enough to get me some decent filll and I'll just use the other light as the bg light. What kind of power relative to the main light should i be looking at for the bg light btw?

-Daniel


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bobbyz
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Aug 06, 2009 08:31 |  #13

BigWebb83 wrote in post #8409362 (external link)
What kind of power relative to the main light should i be looking at for the bg light btw?

-Daniel

Daniel,

That will depend on what you going to use bg light for? If some some light on bg, then any low power unit should work. For white blown out bg, you will need more powerful unit. Some folks use cheap AC powered small flash units which have built in optical trigger, no mdeling light, no control on power. But I think having a strobe unit similar to your key/fill will be better even though it costs more money.


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BigWebb83
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Aug 06, 2009 09:36 |  #14

bobbyz wrote in post #8409781 (external link)
Daniel,

That will depend on what you going to use bg light for? If some some light on bg, then any low power unit should work. For white blown out bg, you will need more powerful unit. Some folks use cheap AC powered small flash units which have built in optical trigger, no mdeling light, no control on power. But I think having a strobe unit similar to your key/fill will be better even though it costs more money.


can you link me to one of these cheaper ac units just so i can take a look? I think tonight once i get everything moved around and situated right a I'm going to try using just a main light with a reflector for fill and the other light for the bg.


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Aug 06, 2009 09:43 |  #15

BigWebb83 wrote in post #8410087 (external link)
can you link me to one of these cheaper ac units just so i can take a look? I think tonight once i get everything moved around and situated right a I'm going to try using just a main light with a reflector for fill and the other light for the bg.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …ms_SP72_72_AC_S​trobe.html (external link)

Pathetically powered for what you want.


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Daylight photo fluorescent in cheap desk lamp for ghetto bg light?
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