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Thread started 12 Aug 2009 (Wednesday) 16:08
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Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 vs. Final Cut Pro

 
ChrisMc73
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Aug 12, 2009 16:08 |  #1

Ok, so those of you who have used both of these or either one, what is your overall opinion on one over another? What is it that Adobe does better than FCP and vice versa?

Right now while in my PC only world, I have Premiere Pro CS4 software, but have never used it; its part of my Master CS4 Suite collection. I'm trying to decide if I should start digging into using it with my 5D Mark II video files and learning it or wait till I get my MacBook Pro and Final Cut Pro/Express and have to learn a new tool all over again?

I know it seems like a no brainer to just stick with the software I have thats been paid for and not worry about buying more in the future, but I would like to know if I'm getting a lot less powerful of software tool than FCP or if Premiere is pretty solid.

Thoughts?




  
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basroil
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Aug 12, 2009 21:38 |  #2

I'll tell you that, from the little I've used it, I find FCP easier to manage than Premiere, cleaner layout with things where I want them off the bat. That said, I've grown a bit more accustomed to Premiere, now with workspaces that suite me, and the easy switch between them when editing one thing or another. Plugins and photoshop/after effects integration are also great in Premiere, which is more or less a given they are Adobe products. Also supports practically any video/audio file thanks to Direct Show filter support, though the mac version of Premiere won't have that anyway. They are both powerful though, so go with what seems best. You can't trial FCP (stupid, I know), but you can check out the Adobe website for a free (and full) trial (external link). I'm sure if you have an Apple store nearby you can try out FCP there.


I don't hate macs or OSX, I hate people and statements that portray them as better than anything else. Macs are A solution, not THE solution. Get a good desktop i7 with Windows 7 and come tell me that sucks for photo or video editing.
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ChrisMc73
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Aug 12, 2009 22:46 |  #3

I have the Adobe Master Suite CS4, so I have Premiere and After Effects and all that to my disposal on the PC format (and Mac, I just don't own a Mac yet).

I'll play with Premiere for now and see what I can do with it, although I doubt my Dell Precision 650, Dual Xeon CPU with 2GB of RAM and Radeon X1950 Pro video card can do much with this HD video coming from the 5D Mark II. We'll see. I've considered upgrading to 4GB of RAM to help prolong the life of this beast, until I can get the Mac.

Guess I just need a good book and sit down and play with Premiere.




  
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basroil
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Aug 12, 2009 22:54 |  #4

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #8450140 (external link)
I have the Adobe Master Suite CS4, so I have Premiere and After Effects and all that to my disposal on the PC format (and Mac, I just don't own a Mac yet).

I'll play with Premiere for now and see what I can do with it, although I doubt my Dell Precision 650, Dual Xeon CPU with 2GB of RAM and Radeon X1950 Pro video card can do much with this HD video coming from the 5D Mark II. We'll see. I've considered upgrading to 4GB of RAM to help prolong the life of this beast, until I can get the Mac.

Guess I just need a good book and sit down and play with Premiere.

Your rig should do fine,though a bit of extra memory may help. I would suggest using CoreAVC codec instead of the built in one though, it should work better with your system (about 2 years old right?). But if you have all that already, stick to a windows system, with i7 or 5500 line xeon (though those end up being about the same as mac pro, only a bit cheaper after decking both out with equivalent video cards). No sense in switching systems unless you have a defined need. Like having canon gear then picking up a nikon because it's cool. In general, not the best idea.
Do go to an Apple store though and check out if FCP really is worth your switch (including the extra 850 or so after swapping the CS license to mac version)


I don't hate macs or OSX, I hate people and statements that portray them as better than anything else. Macs are A solution, not THE solution. Get a good desktop i7 with Windows 7 and come tell me that sucks for photo or video editing.
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ChrisMc73
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Aug 12, 2009 23:53 |  #5

After initially trying to just import the .MOV files from my CF Card into Premiere Pro CS4, I am not impressed, I can't! I tried to use the Adobe Media Encoder as well, and it won't accept the files either. Say they can't be imported. What am I doing wrong?
I've always wanted a Mac, and I will be getting a Mac, so thats not an issue. This is more of a temporary solution until I get a Mac. So far = fail. I can't even import the direct .mov files from the CF Card into Premiere to use...




  
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basroil
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Aug 12, 2009 23:59 |  #6

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #8450417 (external link)
After initially trying to just import the .MOV files from my CF Card into Premiere Pro CS4, I am not impressed, I can't! I tried to use the Adobe Media Encoder as well, and it won't accept the files either. Say they can't be imported. What am I doing wrong?
I've always wanted a Mac, and I will be getting a Mac, so thats not an issue. This is more of a temporary solution until I get a Mac. So far = fail. I can't even import the direct .mov files from the CF Card into Premiere to use...

Change the name to .mp4, and make sure your settings are set to work at 1080p NTSC. Dunno why canon chose to use .mov extension instead of the proper .mp4, but luckily that's naming convention only, both are exactly the same in the case of the 5dmkii.

And forget about good editing of 5dmkii files on a macbook, pro or otherwise. May be able to play back HD video, but encoding will take forever. There's a reason why FCP/FCS users switch to mac pros.


I don't hate macs or OSX, I hate people and statements that portray them as better than anything else. Macs are A solution, not THE solution. Get a good desktop i7 with Windows 7 and come tell me that sucks for photo or video editing.
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ChrisMc73
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Aug 13, 2009 00:18 |  #7

Changed the file extension to .MP4 and it still won't import...I feel so noobie.
I think its an issue with Adobe Premiere and how it doesn't support the H.246 format very well?
Still reading the topics on the net...not sure I know the issue yet.




  
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Trey ­ T
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Aug 13, 2009 03:11 |  #8

For PC guys, to edit original .mov files, you'll need a special software (external link) that decode your GPU on your graphic card. Other than that, you can NOT edit it w/o the jittering playback.

I just convert it over to mpeg-2(w/ mp2 audio) at 29.97fps, a very light codec for any editors. I render the final edit to mp4(ac3 audio), as it is one of the best delivery format for youtube, vimeo, and exposureroom.

.MOV is more of a delivery format, not something to be edited on. However, ppl have figure out how to utilize GPU decoder to properly playback the native footage in your NLE, as I mentioned above.




  
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ChrisMc73
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Aug 13, 2009 08:15 |  #9

Thanks Trey! So let me see if understand you right. If I want to edit the native file that comes from the camera, I need the special software to decode on my GPU? I don't have an NVIDIA card, I have an ATI X1950 Pro.

Or I can convert it to mpeg-2(w/mp2 audio) at 29.97fps like you do? How do you convert it to that format what do you use?




  
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Trey ­ T
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Aug 13, 2009 10:47 |  #10

This (external link) is what I use. It's a pretty powerful encoder, as it let you select which audio type you want to encode to, bc some NLE will not recognize it. i.e. my Sony vegas will not recognize mpeg-2(w/ ac3). I can play the file on VLC fine but when I drag into the timeline, Vegas does NOT see any audio, so it might similar to Premiere.

It's a simple drag and drop software, then select your output format, then change the desired criteria... then convert!!!

I have been converting to mpeg-2(w/ mp2) 1920x1080 @ about 10Mbps. The file is reduced to about 85%. A 4gig file takes about 10-15min, on a DELL D521(pretty slow computer). All of our PCs are dual-core and the software utilizes both core, not sure about quad-core though, even though the site says multi-core support.

obviously, if you can edit the original files, it will saves you a ton of time. for more detail on GPU decoder, ask in cinema5D, DVinfo, or their own forum. I don't know too much about it.




  
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basroil
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Aug 13, 2009 12:13 |  #11

Trey T wrote in post #8451074 (external link)
For PC guys, to edit original .mov files, you'll need a special software (external link) that decode your GPU on your graphic card. Other than that, you can NOT edit it w/o the jittering playback.

I just convert it over to mpeg-2(w/ mp2 audio) at 29.97fps, a very light codec for any editors. I render the final edit to mp4(ac3 audio), as it is one of the best delivery format for youtube, vimeo, and exposureroom.

.MOV is more of a delivery format, not something to be edited on. However, ppl have figure out how to utilize GPU decoder to properly playback the native footage in your NLE, as I mentioned above.

Sorry, everything is completely wrong here.

1) You CAN easily edit h.264 baseline 1080p from a 5dmkii on a decent core2duo (2.53gh or better) laptop processor or almost any desktop made in the last two years. You can also view (realtime view, few filters) on many computers with lower specs depending on the codec. If the filter is direct show compatible though (coreAVC, ffdshow [free], other ffmpeg derivatives [Usually free]), a decent gpu will be needed for buffers and some filter effects. You do not NEED expensive codecs that may not even work with your computer (note that it requires desktop 8000 or higher series nvidia cards, probably works with 8800 and newer for laptops too though) or settings (you can't tell the decoder to automatically resize, so no 1080p video in 720p workspaces without major issues. My core duo (not core 2 duo, which is 40% faster) laptop plays 720p 8000kbps high profile unrestricted video (about same processing power as a 5dmkii file, maybe a bit more intensive actually) without any problems (though screen is too small for 1080p, and the GPU isn't happy with 3x buffering of 1080p video), while running vista 32bit. My vista 64bit core i7 desktop plays not one, not two, but up to four high quality, high profile 1080p videos in h.264 without any issues (other than the fact I only have two monitors and one speaker). It's not a PC vs Mac thing, it's an old computer vs new computer thing. Anyone that says otherwise is just not using the right programs.

2) Don't use mpeg2 format at all. It's lossy, and in HD will not provide the improvements in speed you seek.

3) .MOV is a renamed .MP4 container. A container is just as it's name implies, it neatly stores other things, in this case, an h.264 video file and LPCM audio file. You don't need special garbage to open it, just rename the file from MOV_XXXX.mov to MOV_XXXX.mp4. Simple and easy. If you want to import some fancier formats, use the Haali splitter. Free, and supports more things than the quicktime splitter that takes care of .mov extensions.


Trey T wrote in post #8452676 (external link)
This (external link) is what I use. It's a pretty powerful encoder, as it let you select which audio type you want to encode to, bc some NLE will not recognize it. i.e. my Sony vegas will not recognize mpeg-2(w/ ac3). I can play the file on VLC fine but when I drag into the timeline, Vegas does NOT see any audio, so it might similar to Premiere.

It's a simple drag and drop software, then select your output format, then change the desired criteria... then convert!!!

I have been converting to mpeg-2(w/ mp2) 1920x1080 @ about 10Mbps. The file is reduced to about 85%. A 4gig file takes about 10-15min, on a DELL D521(pretty slow computer). All of our PCs are dual-core and the software utilizes both core, not sure about quad-core though, even though the site says multi-core support.

obviously, if you can edit the original files, it will saves you a ton of time. for more detail on GPU decoder, ask in cinema5D, DVinfo, or their own forum. I don't know too much about it.

Why spend $40 on that when you can just use megui (external link)+avisynth (external link)? Completely free, and you can export and import just about anything, from .mov to .wmv to full un-modified dvd vob files. You can export it to mp4, mpeg, mkv, and more. And since it's absolutely free, it's worth every penny you'll save ;) And supports up to 16 threads/encode in h.264 mode, though you really only should use 2 threads for encoding, maybe up to 4. Also supports as many workers as you want, so if you have a dual processor xeon 5500 workstation, you can run eight encodes at the same time. Much, much, much faster than adobe media encoder too, at least 5x.


I don't hate macs or OSX, I hate people and statements that portray them as better than anything else. Macs are A solution, not THE solution. Get a good desktop i7 with Windows 7 and come tell me that sucks for photo or video editing.
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Trey ­ T
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Aug 13, 2009 13:38 |  #12

Are you making these suggestion base on experience or theory? I have tried doing real-time editing but no go. If you can point me in the right direction, it would save me a bunch of time w/ converting to different format.

Even Cineform create NEOSCENE strictly for avchd and h.246. Now there's the GPU encoder.

It could be a break-through here, basroil. if you, in fact, get it to work properly, please share it here or any other 5DII forum.




  
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Trey ­ T
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Aug 13, 2009 13:54 |  #13

as far as video degradation from conversion, I know I am sacrificing the perfect picture but I know my demand of the final delivery.

We stick to mpeg-2 due to the fact that we have experience w/ it and it works excellent for us. We can edit on all of our computers/laptops we use on and off the field, where reliability is concerned. We have use other formats too but this is more than enough for what we deliver.

I am at the phase where I don't want to experiment anymore, we just shoot/produce videos.

I am sharing this w/ y'all guys based on my experiences, not just something I hear over another forums.




  
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ChrisMc73
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Aug 13, 2009 14:03 |  #14

Ok I'm lost...I like the free encoders, so I need to download megui? That will take the raw files from the CF Card, and allow me to convert them into something that I can use in Adobe Premiere? What is avisynth for? Is it just an editor that I could use in place of Premiere? I have Premiere so I want to use it, but the files from the camera aren't working in Premiere as they are now...so I just need a basic program to fix the files to allow me to bring them into Premiere, is that what megui will do for me?




  
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ChrisMc73
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Aug 13, 2009 14:13 |  #15

Tonight I will post up the specs to my two PCs (one desktop one laptop) and we'll see what you all think I can do with them editing wise...but first I just want to see any one of my movie files ported inside Premire, which I haven't seen yet.




  
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