First shots - hockey

Ok so I've been out of the loop for the better part of a year and a half. I got a great deal on a 30d so I picked it up. I work at a local rink running the score board, I also play there twice a week. Anyway the company that is organizing the league wants some photos so I took some. I just bought a 17-40 f/L, its my 1st L. Anyway I took a team shot after their game and it looks to me as the ice is all washed out. Can someone help me with that? I tried setting a custom WB by shooting the ice and setting that as my WB but still came washy. The orignals were shot in raw, all i did was convert them using the software that came with the 30d. Thanks!

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO | PHOTOBUCKET ERROR IMAGE

Color's dont look all that bad, especially looking at the players in the purple jersey's, I'm not a giant fan of CWB, I usually let the body do AWB especially if I'm indoor's. I would try bringing your picture into Photoshop and saturating the color just a tad and than adjust the levels to make sure the lighting is just right.

Yes your ice is too hot here. You can tone that down a bit in pp. You'll need to lighten the shadows on the jerseys too. If you're using the ice for CWB, make sure its skated up, not freshly re-surfaced. You could also try a gray card or a coffee filter held vertically - the same plane the skaters are on - for CWB.

If the shots the organization is looking for are team shots like this, use a flash. Set up your tripod, mark the ice with a Sharpie, set the distance where you want your subjects, mark the ice with the Sharpie. Manually set your camera and flash for those those distances and you'll find it much easier. You can adjust as required on after a couple of test shots , but you should be able to make the ice look much more natural with the manual settings.

I'd also crop this to lose the beams, lights and other building features. You're down low which is a good perspective.

Action shots are a whole other story.

cheers.

Darsk47 wrote in post #8458975
Action shots are a whole other story.

Yea, the action shots are easier! You don't have to get on the ice with a sharpie!!!

Honestly, Darcy has great advice here. There's tons of info on this board about metering for hockey, but his method described above seems to be the quickest. Let us know if you have any questions.

Thanks for the input! I actually did meter on fresh cut ice. Next time I'll get the shot after its been skated on. A tighter crop would work too I guess. Action shot wasnt too bad. Again shot with the 17-40 and this was thru 1/2" glass

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO | PHOTOBUCKET ERROR IMAGE

What rink is that? Bethpage?

AWB sucks in every situation. CWB is really the only way to do it -- even if you shoot RAW, it gives you a nice fresh starting point.

I think the ice is a tad bit hot, but that's not white balance, that's exposure. Just like when/if you shoot something against snow, you have dial down your exposure compensation.

BTW, It looks like the rinks at Hauppauge rather than Bethpage. Haven't been to a rink in so long though it could be MSG and I wouldn't recognize it.

d44 wrote in post #8466265
What rink is that? Bethpage?

Your right, Its the new rink at bethpage. Id never be able to shoot at the Rinx.. the lighting is so terrible that when you play, you can barely see the puck! haha

Aram- Ill remember that, next time I shoot some hockey I'll under expose it a little with a cwb and see how that turns out. Thanx for the tips!

carbonXevo8 wrote in post #8469478
next time I shoot some hockey I'll under expose it a little with a cwb and see how that turns out.

Noooooo.

The ice should be to the right (2 stops) of the histogram. If you underexpose the ice, it will look nasty grey and the players will be very underexposed.

Search around. This has been well covered.

In general. Set your camera to AV with the aperture and ISO you are going to use selected. Local rinks will normally be 2.8 @ 1600 or 3200. Adjust as your equipment allows.

Next take a clean shot of the ice. No players, no lines, just ice.

Look at what the camera gives you for a shutter. You'll probably notice the big spike in the center of the histogram. That's the ice. If you review the image, it will look grey.

Shift to manual mode. Take the shutter given and slow it by two full stops. Leave it there. Shoot the game in manual with those settings. This makes the ice nice and white and generally puts the players in the center of the histogram, or properly exposed.

The catch... If the light is really bad, you'll end up with a shutter way too slow to stop action. I find 1/320 is doable depending on the level (speed) of play, higher is better. I've used 1/250, but you have to watch what you’re trying to shoot and understand you will have some motion blur, which isn’t always a bad thing! The thing to really avoid is shooting with a shutter so slow you introduce camera shake. If you wind up in that situation, enjoy the game with both eyes!

Lacks_focus wrote in post #8477259
Noooooo.

The ice should be to the right (2 stops) of the histogram. If you underexpose the ice, it will look nasty grey and the players will be very underexposed.

Search around. This has been well covered.

In general. Set your camera to AV with the aperture and ISO you are going to use selected. Local rinks will normally be 2.8 @ 1600 or 3200. Adjust as your equipment allows.

Next take a clean shot of the ice. No players, no lines, just ice.

Look at what the camera gives you for a shutter. You'll probably notice the big spike in the center of the histogram. That's the ice. If you review the image, it will look grey.

Shift to manual mode. Take the shutter given and slow it by two full stops. Leave it there. Shoot the game in manual with those settings. This makes the ice nice and white and generally puts the players in the center of the histogram, or properly exposed.

The catch... If the light is really bad, you'll end up with a shutter way too slow to stop action. I find 1/320 is doable depending on the level (speed) of play, higher is better. I've used 1/250, but you have to watch what you’re trying to shoot and understand you will have some motion blur, which isn’t always a bad thing! The thing to really avoid is shooting with a shutter so slow you introduce camera shake. If you wind up in that situation, enjoy the game with both eyes!

Thanks for the tips

Sorry your idea is nice and yes I have read the articles you're referring to but they don't work. Not in a semi-pro or lower leagues. Yes, if you go to MSG and sit at the ice yes but nowhere else.

The OP's concern was that the white wasn't ice and was blown our. What I suggested will make the ice look more like the ice you see at the rink. Yes, it will be slightly gray, because it is slightly gray. You want the people to pop rather than the ice.

You can try both method and see which one you like better though, nothing says either way is right or wrong ... whichever produces the image you like that's the right way.

aram535 wrote in post #8479693
Sorry your idea is nice and yes I have read the articles you're referring to but they don't work. Not in a semi-pro or lower leagues. Yes, if you go to MSG and sit at the ice yes but nowhere else.

While there are likely several ways to arrive at a good exposure for hockey, in my experience underexposing isn't one of them. When you try to bring up an underexposed shot in post, you also bring up the noise and kill detail. I shoot in small, poorly to very poorly lit, local rinks all season long. Shooting at MSG would only mean you get a better choice of shutter, aperture and ISO combinations... I am always "maxed out" with my camera in the normal venues I see. Most of my shots, especially towards the end of last season when I discovered ISO 3200 is nothing to be afraid of, are 1/320 - 1/250, 2.8 and 3200 (or 1600 if the light is decent). If you try setting your camera the way I outlined you will have an excellent starting point to maximize image quality to the potential of your skill and gear. If you read my original reply, you'll see I was referring to his comment that he should underexpose a bit for hockey. Given the fact his original shot had very blown out ice, yes, generally he needed to dial it down. That advice didn't address his original problem which is finding proper exposure in this environment in the first place. That is what I was addressing...

I find the method I use does the trick every time. YMMV! I’m no expert, but my images occasionally sell; kids and parents like them.



Manual mode, 1/320, f/2.8, ISO3200, CWB.

Yup same here with the dank dark rink

ISO 2500, 320 shutter and f2.8

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO