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Thread started 27 Aug 2009 (Thursday) 15:30
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Are you Shooting HAMSTTR? - ETTR - Expose to the right

 
zincozinco
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Sep 02, 2009 15:59 |  #31

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #8562039 (external link)
Well, no, the point is that ETTR / HAMSTTR will give less noise than, and better color info than a "mid range" HAMS. (histogram and meter setting)

is this starting again :eek:


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Sep 02, 2009 16:01 |  #32

P.S. though confusion with the way Daniel was stating this info is what sparked the term "HAMSTTR".. all kudos for pointing out the intricacies of the ISO push go to Daniel Browning!


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Sep 02, 2009 16:21 |  #33

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #8571517 (external link)
P.S. though confusion with the way Daniel was stating this info is what sparked the term "HAMSTTR".. all kudos for pointing out the intricacies of the ISO push go to Daniel Browning!

Absolutely!

But watch out for using a high ISO -- it causes more noise:)!


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Sep 02, 2009 16:26 |  #34

Dude,. don't confuse us!


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Sep 02, 2009 16:28 |  #35

Heh:)!


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oaktree
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Sep 02, 2009 16:37 |  #36

Although knowing its problems, I lean towards shooting to the left. I guess I'm trying for the Rembrandt effect of a "shaft of light" with figures hidden in the dark shadows.


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zincozinco
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Sep 02, 2009 16:42 |  #37

tonylong wrote in post #8571634 (external link)
Absolutely!

But watch out for using a high ISO -- it causes more noise:)!

Here we go....


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Curtis ­ N
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Sep 02, 2009 17:34 |  #38

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #8571495 (external link)
Curtis, when you get a chance, read the POTN thread from last month, also linked in my initial post.

Ok, I will read those 459 posts, when I have a few days of spare time. :D

tonylong wrote in post #8571346 (external link)
I saw this pretty dramatically when I shot an ISO 1600 shot, getting a well-exposed shot (when amplified by the ISO) then taking the same shot using the same shutter speed and aperture but at ISO 100, and then trying to boost the shot (by four stops) in PP. It was ugly!

I think anyone who has tried to crank up a badly underexposed shot with a RAW converter understands that it's better to use the camera's ISO to get the exposure right, whenever possible.

And when you extrapolate that premise, it's not hard to understand that ETTR (HAMSTTR) will work, even when you use ISO to do it. So I will take back what I wrote in post #18 about the concept only applying to the camera's lowest ISO setting when you have shutter speed to spare.

And if HAMSTTR truly involves all of that, then it is a multi-faceted concept, involving multiple phenomena related to digital image technology.


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Sep 02, 2009 17:55 |  #39

This is all very interesting. I always have tried to expose right to lower noise. I have found shooting on the flats in Botswana a challenge. It is flat and open with a cloudless sky. If one exposes for the surroundings, the elephants or hippos are a dark spike on the left of the histogram. Recovering detail is a battle with noise. I shoot as far right as possible, even willing to blow a few landscape details. Obviously, this is less of an issue at the golden hours when the sun is to your back.

I would love to hear others thoughts on how to shoot this challenging setting.


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Curtis ­ N
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Sep 02, 2009 18:25 |  #40

buddy4344 wrote in post #8572154 (external link)
I would love to hear others thoughts on how to shoot this challenging setting.

5-shot bracketing and HDR. ;)

Seriously, I'm often shooting scenes with so much contrast that HAMSTTR doesn't come into play, as I'm using the camera's entire dynamic range to begin with and hoping not to clip channels on both ends.


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Sep 02, 2009 18:49 |  #41

Curtis N wrote in post #8572061 (external link)
Ok, I will read those 459 posts, when I have a few days of spare time. :D
I think anyone who has tried to crank up a badly underexposed shot with a RAW converter understands that it's better to use the camera's ISO to get the exposure right, whenever possible.

And when you extrapolate that premise, it's not hard to understand that ETTR (HAMSTTR) will work, even when you use ISO to do it. So I will take back what I wrote in post #18 about the concept only applying to the camera's lowest ISO setting when you have shutter speed to spare.

This is the cool thing that has come to light, at least with the Canon cameras that have been tested -- ISO 1600 amplification actually introduces less noise than ISO 100 amplification -- can you dig that? The high noise we see when we have high ISO shots is from the low-light exposures amplified, but would be much worse if amplified in PP.

And if HAMSTTR truly involves all of that, then it is a multi-faceted concept, involving multiple phenomena related to digital image technology.

True that it's multi-faceted, because the first rule is to let in as much light as you can within the parameters of getting the shot you want/need, but then you can actually improve the noise performance with "ITTR" (ISO to the right) if you have the highlight headroom. And yeah, it's digital -- we all know what high ISO film does to you!


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Sep 03, 2009 10:37 |  #42

Curtis N wrote in post #8572061 (external link)
....

And if HAMSTTR truly involves all of that, then it is a multi-faceted concept, involving multiple phenomena related to digital image technology.

I think that's the crux of it...
Maybe Daniel was more spot on too keep the two aspects in two terms,. ie: ETTR and ITTR.

HAMSTTR is one actual "practice" that incorporates two phenomena into that one practice.
Based on the long thread, some of us felt that this was how we had been using the two phenomena all the time,. but since ETTR only described accurately one,. .....


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Sep 03, 2009 10:48 |  #43

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #8576262 (external link)
I think that's the crux of it...
Maybe Daniel was more spot on too keep the two aspects in two terms,. ie: ETTR and ITTR.

HAMSTTR is one actual "practice" that incorporates two phenomena into that one practice.
Based on the long thread, some of us felt that this was how we had been using the two phenomena all the time,. but since ETTR only described accurately one,. .....

You know, I'd be curious to see a comparison of ISO performance between Canon and other makers in this regards, that is, whether a high ISO actually cuts down on read noise (rather than just nit-picking high ISO pictures in general).


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Sep 03, 2009 10:48 |  #44

No..I'm shooting SQUIRREL :lol:


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Daniel ­ Browning
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Sep 03, 2009 12:00 |  #45

tonylong wrote in post #8576335 (external link)
You know, I'd be curious to see a comparison of ISO performance between Canon and other makers in this regards, that is, whether a high ISO actually cuts down on read noise (rather than just nit-picking high ISO pictures in general).

Here is a list of some cameras that shows how much SNR improves going from ISO 100 to 1600 (for a fixed exposure), based on measurements from Roger Clark, Gabor Sch., and Bart van der Wolf. 1X means it stays the same. 2X means that read noise drops to half at ISO 1600. The smaller the number, the less useful it is to increase ISO and the more often one should just push in post.

  • 1.8X Canon 10D
  • 7.0X Canon 20D
  • 5.1X Canon 50D
  • 9.4X Canon 5D2
  • 1.4X Nikon D200
  • 3.6X Nikon D3
  • 1.0X Panasonic LX3
  • 1.0X Canon G10
  • 1.0X Canon G11
  • 1.0X Canon S70

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Are you Shooting HAMSTTR? - ETTR - Expose to the right
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