The End of Summer Random Discussion for TPBM (29)

cfpackerfan wrote in post #8618884
That's sucky Lisa.

cfpackerfan wrote in post #8618886
I'm losing my tiny little mind.

why for?

short5 wrote in post #8618895
Curly little tail? Feel better Hun.

We know.

lol...hope not. And thanks.

sevillafox wrote in post #8619027
Do you smell all manly? Perhaps it's time to shower?

Off to lunch!

Wait a minute. Manly does not equal stinky.

puddlepirate44 wrote in post #8619008
Isn't that a great feeling? Doesn't happen very often for me, but it is a rush....

Yeah. Especially in this age of "throw it away and buy another one"...

... And a stubborn streak of not wanted to be beaten by a darned machine...

... and an over-riding need for decent coffee...

gjl711 wrote in post #8619025
Did you do that whole chest thump thingy.

Nope, but there was Woopage....

Pete wrote in post #8619072
Nope, but there was Woopage....

Woopage.. yea... I love that feeling.

OK, here it is. My quarterly serious set of photographic remarks. I'm going to lay it all out on the line here and write out the things that I'm thinking and learning in regards to photography.

As you know, Lisa is starting out in her journey of professional photography. I'm kinda on the sidelines watching this happen, learning as she goes. I just want to relay what I've noticed so far. This does not mean that I'm the all-knowing, experienced photographer with all the answers. These are just my observations. There's a good chance I'll look at this again in two years and scoff uproariously at myself.

So, we live in a digital age. Where we can take a photo of something, download it into our computers, tweak the pixels and the 1's and 0's and when we're done, it will look NOTHING like the original. Take a photo and it can be a diamond in the rough, just waiting to be cut and polished.

Unfortunately, it has to start out a diamond in order for it to end up as a diamond.

Meaning, all the photoshop skills in the world won't help a bad shot. One of the many problems that I see in myself is a laziness that comes from being able to tweak a photo in post processing. Because I can do that, I allow sloppiness to creep into my "shooting protocol".

There would be so much less work in post if I would take the time to get the shot right "pre-shutter".

• Am I using the lowest possible ISO and still have a desirable shutter speed? or do I just set it at some high ISO and forget it. By using a lower ISO whenever possible, I'll get higher quality shots in the end.
  
  
• Am I "looking for the ugly" in the shot? This is something that Lisa is teaching me. Is there a light pole in the background that looks like it's sprouting out of the top of someone's head? Is there some brightly colored object in the back that will become a large, colorful "bokeh ball"? Telephone wires?
  
  
• Don't fall into the trap of "Oh, I'll just fix that in Photoshop." That's a slippery slope. Especially when you're there, the client's there, the setting is there.... just recompose or remove the object in question and reshoot. Get it right "pre-shutter" and you won't have to worry about it in post.
  
  
• Get in the habit of taking 3-5 shots of every pose/composition if possible. This will reduce the chance of mistakes, e.g. closed eyes, hair in face, goofy grins, etc. I'll get into why it's necessary for so many shots later, but let it suffice to say that we're not using film, but digital. The extra shots don't cost extra and you're able to purchase some peace of mind with them.
  
  
• Do NOT settle for anything. Too often I settle for my less than stellar lens because I'm too lazy to swap out for the better one. Or I settle with the composition that's before me because I'm too lazy to stand up on a footstool or a bench to get the better angle. Or I settle for handhold even though I know that the shutter speed is waaaaay too low just because I won't get the tripod. What's the point, really. I mean, if you're doing a second rate shot, you're not going to be happy. But with a little extra effort, you could fire off a couple of real keepers.

A nice check list, Dan....I am learning the same things via you guys, and the hard way too...

Dead right, Dan... Especially the second point you made.

What I try and do is look through the viewfinder and do my best to "see" the end photo. Does what I see through the viewfinder "work" as a photo?

Something i'm trying to get the confidence to do is to move things out the way to make the photo more interesting (by removing distracting elements)

Examples:-

I should have taken the umbrellas away before taking the photo

poppie guy wrote in post #8617840
Becky, who/what is this a photo of... nice job btw.

It's a ...

cfpackerfan wrote in post #8618038
At the Bristol Ren Faire, they are people who are dressed up as sprites (I'm guessing). They don't talk, they are just there... their costumes are always utterly amazing, and each one is a color/theme... like there is an autumn leaves girl who is all reds and oranges. There is one who is all spiderwebby, one who is all tree wood, etc.

Becky could probably explain them better, LOL.

^^^ that..

I'll get a...

cfpackerfan wrote in post #8618057
Sid, I found this: Fantastikals

(It's spelled with a k. Didn't know that)

Click on the 'photos' link at the top of the page.

...link

Thanks Cat.

short5 wrote in post #8618594
Cool. I always enjoy your Ren pictures. You will need to link us Curt's also. He always catches an angle or two I like.

You won't be disappointed. LINK

puddlepirate44 wrote in post #8619099
OK, here it is. My quarterly serious set of photographic remarks.

Very good points. In fact I just remembered, after converting, I have to run some of my Ren shots through Noise Ninja, late day shadows, I had to boost the ISO a bit.

Happy lunch hour all.

puddlepirate44 wrote in post #8619099
One of the many problems that I see in myself is a laziness that comes from being able to tweak a photo in post processing. Because I can do that, I allow sloppiness to creep into my "shooting protocol".

Ya know, I shot film for many years and getting it right in the camera was not something to strive for, but something that had to be done as there was no fixing it later. But since switching to digital i do notice myself getting lazy because so much can be fixed later. I never bother to set WB anymore because it's so easy to shoot raw and fix it later. I worry much less about wires because they too can be taken out easily. People and poles are a little harder but even they disappear as well. I guess if i was doing this as a profession and time was of the essance it would be more important, but the more digital I shoot the lazier I get. Fritz, my mentor would whack me upside the head if he read this post though.

Pete wrote in post #8619158
Dead right, Dan... Especially the second point you made....

Both distractions will now be a pain to remove in photoshop.

Zactly. I have a ton of shots that, if I had taken a closer look, I could've spared myself a lot of anguish later in PS.

Harm wrote in post #8619147
A nice check list, Dan....I am learning the same things via you guys, and the hard way too...

We all do. It's a pretty steep learning curve for most of us. For some (Neil), it's natural...

Becky N wrote in post #8619177
Very good points. In fact I just remembered, after converting, I have to run some of my Ren shots through Noise Ninja, late day shadows, I had to boost the ISO a bit.

It's the little things like that....

gjl711 wrote in post #8619194
Ya know, I shot film for many years ....

It's so easy to get lazy because we can fix these mistakes in the comfort of our homes, not in some stifling dark room. But it does tend to make us sloppier photogs in the process.

I wanted to make an addendum to my earlier post...

• Do NOT settle for anything. Too often I settle for my less than stellar lens because I'm too lazy to swap out for the better one. Or I settle with the composition that's before me because I'm too lazy to stand up on a footstool or a bench to get the better angle. Or I settle for handhold even though I know that the shutter speed is waaaaay too low just because I won't get the tripod. What's the point, really. I mean, if you're doing a second rate shot, you're not going to be happy. But with a little extra effort, you could fire off a couple of real keepers.
  

Good observations Dan. I have noticed people taking shots that are unusable until PP. Certainly PP improves an image and there are things like a boost here and there, or a clone that is necessary. It seems a lot of people are just shooting junk or marginal work then making an image in PP. They need to clone out or replace the backdrop, add sky, swap body parts, and add all sorts of actions. I guess it turns out a product but an additional couple hours on each shot just getting them looking normal sure has to be a difficult way to make a living. Moving the subject or taking the time for a decent backdrop seems better than boogering with it afterwords. I understand the time needed for a good layout and such, that is a bit different and part of packaging the images. It just seems getting the shots right to start would be a whole lot less painful than producing them after the fact. I don't do portraiture so my niche is different. I shoot 1000 images often times and turn out 200 or so from a race. There is just no way I could do extensive PP on each. I try to get them close sooc.

puddlepirate44 wrote in post #8619252
It's the little things like that....

Yep, thanks for the reminder. Batches are running now.

Back to work for me, see you all in a few hours.

Becky N wrote in post #8619177
You won't be disappointed. LINK

Thanks Becky.

Ich bin zurück! (I'm back!)

Permagrin wrote in post #8618730
lol...that's because the others were so beautiful. I can honestly say, I couldn't hold up for an 8.5 hr hike...so I'd never get to see this irl.

Believe me Lisa. You could do it. The walk to this place is basically on a road and takes 30-45 min from the cable car station.... We then walked to a mountain hut which was another 2.5 hours walking away, but it was a very easy trail (you'll see shots later, when they will be processed...) And you can sleep at the hut. So you can do it in 2 days, we 3 hours easy walking each day!!

short5 wrote in post #8618740
Lovely view D. It is neat to see it with pools of water compared to the winter wonder land you ski in.

Yyes, it is very different. I don't know what I like the most though

gjl711 wrote in post #8618800
Awesome.. How was the restaurant?

We didn't stop this time at this restaurant. We ate (wonderfully) at the refuge further on the trail. From my winter experiences, it is very simple food. But good. and the scenery and peacefullness you have there is worth all the meals

Pete wrote in post #8618988
Happiness for me.

Congrats!

puddlepirate44 wrote in post #8619099
OK, here it is. My quarterly serious set of photographic remarks. I'm going to lay it all out on the line here and write out the things that I'm thinking and learning in regards to photography.

Thanks for the very good thoughts! I enjoy learning from you guys!

short5 wrote in post #8619257
Good observations Dan. I have noticed people taking shots that are unusable until PP. Certainly PP improves an image and there are things like a boost here and there, or a clone that is necessary. It seems a lot of people are just shooting junk or marginal work then making an image in PP. They need to clone out or replace the backdrop, add sky, swap body parts, and add all sorts of actions. I guess it turns out a product but an additional couple hours on each shot just getting them looking normal sure has to be a difficult way to make a living. Moving the subject or taking the time for a decent backdrop seems better than boogering with it afterwords. I understand the time needed for a good layout and such, that is a bit different and part of packaging the images. It just seems getting the shots right to start would be a whole lot less painful than producing them after the fact. I don't do portraiture so my niche is different. I shoot 1000 images often times and turn out 200 or so from a race. There is just no way I could do extensive PP on each. I try to get them close sooc.

That's really the point. There's nothing wrong with PS, don't get me wrong. It's a great way to really enhance a shot. For me, and it may be different for others, it's about time. I would rather be doing something else, shooting more shots, playing, reading, POTN-ing, whatever, than laboring over a shot that, with some pre-shutter vigilance, would be a cinch to perfect in post.

But I'll save that for a later post....

BTW, a 20% keeper rate is pretty good.