considering the D700...

Keith R wrote in post #9735127
The colour difference might be a monitor thing, Optiq - I've viewed these images many times, on my calibrated monitor at home and my non-calibrated monitor at work, and don't see any superiority in the D700 images: and besides, colour balance and chroma noise are trivially easy to fix (for chroma I recommend Capture One's chroma noise reduction - it's excellent - or the LR 3 Beta equivalent).

The fact remains that there's no significant noise advantage to the D700 in any of those shots (or indeed in the whole gallery's worth) but the 7D provides massively more detail - as I say, look towards the back of the D700 3200 ISO scene and see how smeared and lacking in detail the cranes and warehouses are.

There's just no escaping the fact that the 7D is doing a better job of balancing detail, noise and overall IQ than the D700: I see this kind of result in a lot of places I've found D700 images, and I've certainly seen it in D700 NEFs I've downloaded and converted/processed myself (and as an ex Nikon user, I'm pretty familiar with how to process Nikon files).

Then remember how much more "reach" and "croppability" the 7D provides over the D700...

This doesn't strike me as a huge surprise when you consider the 7D has an extra 6 millions to play with. Plus of course the field of view is different.

I'm not lucky enough to own either yet, but it strikes me that a D700 isn't really aimed at the 'landscape taken at night' crowd . I've looked at both of these cameras for a good while (along with the 5D and 5D II) and the FF sensors, to my eyes, offer a tonality, a depth of richness (and this is particularly noticeable when you start looking at where clipping highlights occur, and with mono conversions), that the crop bodies can't get to, especially where people photography is concerned.

I don't think the conversion to Nikon D700/D3 should be made on the basis of IQ. I had a 7D and a 5DII before the D700 and I don't think there is any IQ advantage of the D700 for the way I shoot. If you *need* to keep pushing the exposure in post, then the reported higher latitude and lower shadow noise of the D700 might come into play. Otherwise, no. I don't think there is any significant difference. In fact I think from a 7D/5DII perspective you lose out on the ability to crop.

Now usability and the kind of scenarios that you can adapt to (a finger press away) are very different. I can do stuff with the D700 that I could never dream of doing with the 5DII. The 7D is much better in the handling aspects but is sill limiting compared with the D700. If you have time to kill, http://straightrazorya​kshaver.blogspot.com …n-or-why-i-love-d700.html

marklewisUK wrote in post #9739198
This doesn't strike me as a huge surprise when you consider the 7D has an extra 6 millions to play with.

It's not meant to be a "surprise", though - it's meant to be a clear statement of one of the ways in which the 7D is potentially a better camera than the D700 or other 12 mp FF camera.

joove wrote in post #9739208
I don't think the conversion to Nikon D700/D3 should be made on the basis of IQ. I had a 7D and a 5DII before the D700 and I don't think there is any IQ advantage of the D700 for the way I shoot. If you *need* to keep pushing the exposure in post, then the reported higher latitude and lower shadow noise of the D700 might come into play. Otherwise, no. I don't think there is any significant difference. In fact I think from a 7D/5DII perspective you lose out on the ability to crop.

Now usability and the kind of scenarios that you can adapt to (a finger press away) are very different. I can do stuff with the D700 that I could never dream of doing with the 5DII. The 7D is much better in the handling aspects but is sill limiting compared with the D700. If you have time to kill, http://straightrazorya​kshaver.blogspot.com …n-or-why-i-love-d700.html

Fair comments, Joove - and they further support the argument that there's no inherent superiority of the D700 over other cameras we might wish to compare it with: preferring the D700 is fine (and why not? Great camera) but that doesn't make it a better camera, despite what some folk are saying.

Keith R wrote in post #9739371
It's not meant to be a "surprise", though - it's meant to be a clear statement of one of the ways in which the 7D is potentially a better camera than the D700 or other 12 mp FF camera.

As mine was a clear statement of one of the ways that any of the 12MP FF cameras is potentially a better camera than the 7D.

I like 7D ergonomic better than D700. Placement of sub command dial is just one example that I really hate.

Keith R wrote in post #9739383
Fair comments, Joove - and they further support the argument that there's no inherent superiority of the D700 over other cameras we might wish to compare it with: preferring the D700 is fine (and why not? Great camera) but that doesn't make it a better camera, despite what some folk are saying.

Actually "better", is not just a matter of preference. Classifying it as such robs you of an opportunity to actually experience what is out there.

Things like body shape, buttons instead of menus might be preference items.

Things like the position of the AF selection pad and location of the sub-dial could be ergonomic items that based on how your hand anatomy is set up and whether you have generously sized fingers might be deciding factors.

Things like color rendering, WB could be preference items or minor annoyances that could be corrected in post (for RAW shooters), but those are annoyance.

However, there are things that depending on what one needs to shoot which so definitely make one camera choice better than the other. Please note that these have nothing to do with IQ and everything to do with the kind of *quickly changing* situations that you can successfully handle as a photographer.

And how long it takes to get something done is important not because everything is a critical one in a life event. I want to avoid having my wife and friends look at with exaggerated tolerance when I am fiddling with controls. When shooting kids, time to change controls becomes even more important as you will lose the moment.

The problem of getting married to brands without giving the other brand a shot should be reworded as "why deprive yourself needlessly ?". It's kinda like dating. You never even knew you liked a personality trait in a date till you actually got to know her. Why, you could have dismissed so many people on first impressions colored by previous girl friends.

If you are looking for a small sized body (which I was), then there are things I have discovered the D700 allows me to do which the 7D or 5DI never did. The following list might not be situations one encounters on a regular basis, but to me my usual routine (hiking, nature, family photos, race cars, kids, low-light indoors) is served far better with Nikon's "excessive" button placement, customizability, AF and tracking. I am afraid I will come across as a zealous convert but I think there are hobbyists like me who are not "landscape" shooters or "sport shooters" but a bit of everything (it is not just basketball playes, kids move somewhat briskly too).

These are more of "use cases" from a camera design/customer stand-point. What does the camera allow you to do.

If any of the following scenarios ring a bell and if you are willing. I would like you to try and see what kinds of settings/CF can be used on the 7D/5DII that enables the fastest response from the photographer (from recognizing the scene to actually capturing it) in the following situations.

• Notice a very large dynamic range scene and quickly want to spot meter on your active AF point (on target). How long does it take ?
  • D700: I just keep the preview button (inside the hand grip and bound to Spot metering) with my index finger and depress the shutter.
    
  • 7D/5DII: I press the metering button, rotate dial pad to switch to spot (or move to C1..C3 that inclides spot but brings in the rest of the settings as well) and then take the shot. Once done, I need to revert back to my old metering mode (evaluative usually).
  
  
• Static child, you are happily framing him when he decides to rocket off. How do you ensure you can switch to capturing the moving kid ?
  • D700: The camera is always on Continuous/AI-Servo and stationary to moving is as simple as bumping the AF-On once vs keeping it pressed.
    
  • 7D/5DII: Take my eye off the VF. Press AF mode button, rotate dial to AI-Servo and then reframe. If I do it blindly by feel, I end up in AI-Focus half the time and that mode is as useless as it gets.
  
  
• Notice a moving cloud on a bright landscape and you want to bracket shots quickly without a tripod. How would you do it ?
  • D700: I can do it faster than the words might indicate. Keep the Fn button pressed and move sub-dial to set bracketing interval and main dial to set number of shots and then keep shutter pressed to take the whole bracket in a single burst (even if I am in Single release mode). It is kinda sad that there is no auto-cancel and I have to manual set bracketing shots to 0.
    
  • 7D/5DII: Now I have to get into the menu on the LCD and fiddle with stuff and set bracketing. Once done, I will need to set drive to high-speed so I can avoid moving the camera much and take the whole bracket in a burst. However, auto cancel is nice.
  
  
• Dynamic scene, moving people and you want to attempt to compose with the subject in a corner. How quickly can you move the active AF on them ?
  • I am using in Dynamic AF with 3D tracking with center AF active. I simply focus on subject with center, keep the AF-On pressed, recompose (the active AF point remains on the subject and changes in the VF) and then shoot.

"7D/5DII: Take my eye off the VF. Press AF mode button, rotate dial to AI-Servo and then reframe. If I do it blindly by feel, I end up in AI-Focus half the time and that mode is as useless as it gets."

Not really...I set up my 7D to AI Servo all the time, use the AF-ON to just do the AF and shutter to AE.

"I am using in Dynamic AF with 3D tracking with center AF active. I simply focus on subject with center, keep the AF-On pressed, recompose (the active AF point remains on the subject and changes in the VF) and then shoot."

Same thing with 19 AF points mode. In general 3D tracking is somewhat useless since the intended use is not really what you're currently using for.

The other stuff can be done easily through menus or custom modes.


But it does look like you're enjoying your honeymoon with Nikon so far

maverick678 wrote in post #9743001
But it does look like you're enjoying your honeymoon with Nikon so far

, yes, it does appear that way.

Just got my 24-70mm lens today and It does feel nicer to hold than the canon equiv (thinner). However the AF speed is lacking. The canon one simply used to snap into focus where the Nikon version merely gets there in a hurry. Looks like if it not one thing it is the other.

It's a very good lens better than the current (old) Canon version but I don't use it that much I like the combination of Sigma 50mm and 85mm f/1.4D better.

joove wrote in post #9743236
, yes, it does appear that way.

Just got my 24-70mm lens today and It does feel nicer to hold than the canon equiv (thinner). However the AF speed is lacking. The canon one simply used to snap into focus where the Nikon version merely gets there in a hurry. Looks like if it not one thing it is the other.

maverick678 wrote in post #9743287
It's a very good lens better than the current (old) Canon version but I don't use it that much I like the combination of Sigma 50mm and 85mm f/1.4D better.

I got the 24-70mm G for a great price so I wanted to see how it'll hold up. I hike a lot and was hoping that the weather sealing would be advantageous. The barrel extends a lot during zooming though so I am not sure how well it is sealed in practice. When hiking with a backpack, I realized that after the first few miles, I will never have the energy to drop my backpack to swap lenses. Hence the need for the Cotton carrier and a good weather-sealed zoom.

. I simply love the Sigma 50 though. Each time I purchased a 5DII I bought a new Sigma 50 1.4 for it. When I got the 7D in the middle, I got the Sigma 30/1.4 for it. First lens after I bought the D700... A Sigma 50/1.4. It is by far my favorite lens. There is just something beautiful and peaceful about it's rendering.

Did you ever experiment with a 35mm/85mm pair ? I was thinking that 85mm is close enough to 50mm that those that choose 50mm go for a 105 or 135mm prime as the partner! I am thinking of going for the 105mm AI/AIS or VR macro as the partner to the 50mm.

I've never used Cotton Carrier I have several Lowepro Slings..the 200 AW is my favorite.

The 35mm is a bit too wide for my shooting style. I still own the 35mm f/2D but I'm selling it.

joove wrote in post #9750262
I got the 24-70mm G for a great price so I wanted to see how it'll hold up. I hike a lot and was hoping that the weather sealing would be advantageous. The barrel extends a lot during zooming though so I am not sure how well it is sealed in practice. When hiking with a backpack, I realized that after the first few miles, I will never have the energy to drop my backpack to swap lenses. Hence the need for the Cotton carrier and a good weather-sealed zoom.

. I simply love the Sigma 50 though. Each time I purchased a 5DII I bought a new Sigma 50 1.4 for it. When I got the 7D in the middle, I got the Sigma 30/1.4 for it. First lens after I bought the D700... A Sigma 50/1.4. It is by far my favorite lens. There is just something beautiful and peaceful about it's rendering.

Did you ever experiment with a 35mm/85mm pair ? I was thinking that 85mm is close enough to 50mm that those that choose 50mm go for a 105 or 135mm prime as the partner! I am thinking of going for the 105mm AI/AIS or VR macro as the partner to the 50mm.

I just switched from using a Nikon D700 (old job) to purchasing a new Canon 5DM2 (new job). Like most people we went with the 5DM2 because of it's video capabilities. But I must confess the one thing I miss the most about the Nikon is having a wider range of manual focus points. I remember there being MANY more than the Canon's and more importantly they were in the shape of a rectangle (like the viewfinder window) versus Canon's diamond shape. Why Canon picked the diamond shape is beyond me. Otherwise I'm very happy with the Canon and the additional resolution has made a much bigger difference than I anticipated.

I've made the switch from Nikon to Canon, back to Nikon, back to Canon, and now, with Nikon again.

Why? Because I can (and probably because I have a serious problem).

Canon bodies I've owned to date: 5D, 5Dii, 1DMKiii, 1DsMKii.
Nikon bodies I've owned to date: D40, D70, D80, D90, D1, D700.

And to put things into perspective, this is my camera ownership in chronological order:

• D40 (end of 2009)
  
• D70
  
• D70s
  
• D90
  
• 5D
  
• 5Dii
  
• LX3 (what the!!?!)
  
• D80 with 18-200VR (what the!!?!)
  
• 1DMKiii
  
• 5D
  
• 1DsMKii
  
• D700 and D1
  
• 5DMKii
  
• D700 (today)