Need some opinions...

Alright guys and gals I am in a little bit of a hold right now. I am wondering what to think right now. Here is the story:

As many of you know, I went out on tuesday and took shots using flash to cover the football game. No problems arose at the game but there were apparently some words said by others including the school's AD that I was covering about me using the flash. The AD had gone to someone that I personally know really well and doesnt know that we know eachother, and started talking bad about me because I was using flash at a JV football game to get shots that were better than anything anyone else was going to get that night. The AD specifically said that flash photography was not allowed and that he wasnt going to allow it.. (BTW his kids won).

Here is why this is relevant. I am going back to the same school tonight to shoot a soccer tournament. I want to keep the good graces between me and the AD/School because well, I have gotten some great clients from there. Should I just back down and say thats fine? or should I point out how I am allowed to use flash (VIA the MSHAA's- Missouri State High School Activities Association- Photography Regulations)?

I just need some help here because I have never had a problem of this sort. In fact I shot flashed last night at a soccer game and no comments by officials or coaches. (BTW I asked the officials prior to the football game if it was okay, they had no problems with it neither did the coaches from the team that I was covering. Only the AD and a few other patrons had some problems.. but I was not intruding in the field of play or in the game at all.)

BTW the parents really like the shots and I have gotten at least 10 orders from tuesday alone. and I mean BIG orders.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks all

Whether you are right or not according to MSHAA I would think that you would have enough discretion and maturity to clear it with school officials before using flash.

I'd say shoot without flash whenever you are at the school where the AD doesn't like it. You might think you have a point under some state rules but he controls that field and could order you off of the sideline. You may think that your shots are better than what other shooters are getting at the JV game but they won't be when you go to the varsity level and there are some pro shooters with pro gear. Besides, if you want to be taken seriously as a sports photographer you need to have the skill set needed to shoot using only ambient light no matter how little of it there is. Some sports and some venues won't allow flash, or strobes, so you need to be able to do ambient.

matonanjin wrote in post #8626493
Whether you are right or not according to MSHAA I would think that you would have enough discretion and maturity to clear it with school officials before using flash.

Oh maturity is there.. Since I am going tonight I wasnt going to shoot with it but just wanted opinions about this.

patwill wrote in post #8626497
I'd say shoot without flash whenever you are at the school where the AD doesn't like it. You might think you have a point under some state rules but he controls that field and could order you off of the sideline. You may think that your shots are better than what other shooters are getting at the JV game but they won't be when you go to the varsity level and there are some pro shooters with pro gear. Besides, if you want to be taken seriously as a sports photographer you need to have the skill set needed to shoot using only ambient light no matter how little of it there is. Some sports and some venues won't allow flash, or strobes, so you need to be able to do ambient.

I shoot JV games to make extra money... Varsity is where its at for me.. JV parents will pay for more prints.. I can shoot ambient all i want in fact I shot flash for the first time last week... feel free to look at my shots...
I understand venue regulations but just wondering on people's opinions about doing what is done..

And since you brought up gear.. feel free to look at my gear list...

Im not just talking JV game but varsity games as well with the flash.. no problems..What so ever.. soccer game last night varsity no problems as stated in the op

I would be very careful with this topic and the AD - You may be technically correct, but be setting yourself up for loss of future business. I personally have been shooting sports (Football, Baseball, Basketball, Volleyball and Soccer) for about 5 years now and have never used a flash for two reasons. 1.) For High School level athletes, it can be distracting and the last thing I want is for a pissed off parent to blame me for why their son didn't make the shot or catch the pass. Even if the flash wasn't the factor, the perception will over ride any facts. 2.) Realizing point number 1, I bought an f2.8 70-200 IS so I wouldn't need a flash. Personally I like the non-flashed under the lights look and professionally I would not use a flash at that level.

not_keith wrote in post #8626633
I would be very careful with this topic and the AD - You may be technically correct, but be setting yourself up for loss of future business. I personally have been shooting sports (Football, Baseball, Basketball, Volleyball and Soccer) for about 5 years now and have never used a flash for two reasons. 1.) For High School level athletes, it can be distracting and the last thing I want is for a pissed off parent to blame me for why their son didn't make the shot or catch the pass. Even if the flash wasn't the factor, the perception will over ride any facts. 2.) Realizing point number 1, I bought an f2.8 70-200 IS so I wouldn't need a flash and personally I like the non-flashed under the lights look and professionally I would not use a flash at that level.

a 70-200 2.8 is not always enough... I have a 300 2.8 IS and its not always enough... so going with flash is the only oppertunity... I know I wont say anything but Id just thought Id ask you guys to see if you all have had any problems.

about it being distracting... I have consulted players and none have said they find it distracting.

You asked for an opinion not a debate - do what you will

That pretty much sums it up. You need to schedule an appointment to talk to him about it. What does the fact that his kids won have to do with it?

patwill wrote in post #8626497
You may think that your shots are better than what other shooters are getting at the JV game but they won't be when you go to the varsity level and there are some pro shooters with pro gear.

Besides, if you want to be taken seriously as a sports photographer you need to have the skill set needed to shoot using only ambient light no matter how little of it there is.

Some sports and some venues won't allow flash, or strobes, so you need to be able to do ambient.

I personally prefer ambient shooting (high ISO, wide aperture) over the flash look for evening sports, but an extra twist that's getting me to practice my flash skills is MaxPreps mandating that flash is required for Varsity FB.

Yep

There was no talk prior to the game. Him saying this was all behind my back. I just talked to him and everything is good. He actually talked to me first. Bow the whole kids thing was to say that there's no way he could blame them playing poorly on me lol

Dan-o wrote in post #8626779
That pretty much sums it up. You need to schedule an appointment to talk to him about it. What does the fact that his kids won have to do with it?

Two words: pish posh. And by the way, saying it can be distracting is not an opinion, it's a statement.

Dave, whenever I shoot at a new school, I contact the AD prior to the game, and inform him/her of my intent to shoot with artificial light, and quote the local IHSA (or local state) regulations that permit me to do so. Taking the "assumed close" route, followed up by meeting with the officials before the game, has never once resulted in me getting turned down (and this is after hundreds of HS events in three different states).

dmwierz wrote in post #8627709
Two words: pish posh. And by the way, saying it can be distracting is not an opinion, it's a statement.

Dave, whenever I shoot at a new school, I contact the AD prior to the game, and inform him/her of my intent to shoot with artificial light, and quote the local IHSA (or local state) regulations that permit me to do so. Taking the "assumed close" route, followed up by meeting with the officials before the game, has never once resulted in me getting turned down (and this is after hundreds of HS events in three different states).

the way you have described things is how i have done it... pretty much down to the T.

canonnoob wrote in post #8626309
The AD... started talking bad about me because I was using flash at a JV football game to get shots that were better than anything anyone else was going to get that night. The AD specifically said that flash photography was not allowed and that he wasnt going to allow it

Only the AD and a few other patrons had some problems..

dmwierz wrote in post #8627709
Dave, whenever I shoot at a new school, I contact the AD prior to the game...

canonnoob wrote in post #8629188
the way you have described things is how i have done it... pretty much down to the T.

pretty much down to the T

clarence wrote in post #8630376
pretty much down to the T

I asked him prior to the game if there were any restrictions.. he said just stay off the field of play... simple... no problem..

The next I heard about it was from someone yesterday that talked to him. But... whatever its all good. we discussed and are on the same page now.