The Thirtieth Random Discussion for (TPB)M (and may they R.I.P.)

Hi Bucky *waves*

Hi Sarge. Sorry I missed your entrance.

Not to get off topic just wanted to share this photo with you This is Dax when he was 2
His grandpa on his dads side was a avid train person , went on all the old steamers .And took Dax with him when he was young .

^^ Now that's cute ^^

Permagrin wrote in post #8784788
PONTIFICATION TIME!

Okay, so we're all photographers. And I am probably worst than most about nitpicking my work to death. Seriously, sometimes I make myself physically sick over it. I just want everything to be perfect.

I want the shots to be perfect so I don't have to do much pp work on them if I don't want to. I want the feel to be perfect so the client will love them. I want the look to be perfect so my other photographer friends will love them.

At the bottom of the pile somewhere is me the photographer, beginning to hate my job.

Yesterday I was looking at Jeff Ascough's work. I truly do love his stuff. If you watched the videos, you'll know that he NEVER uses flash. Ever. He's excellent with natural lighting. And he uses 3 1.2L lenses and one F2...so he's got the tools to work in natural light. But he goes against the grain. I would be scared to death not to use flash. In the few photos I did of Nichole (where it was not possible to use flash from where I was, the shadows on her eyes were nearly impenetrable). The photos had to be effect shots.

Another thing he does...he uses 4 primes. That's it. the 24L, 50L for 80% of his work and the 85L & 135L for backup. He also keeps the 35L around but rarely uses it...only if one of his other two short primes fails.

Now, nobody does that. Primes for portraits...zooms for the ceremony. We do what he calls "rapid firing" the event in hopes of the full coverage. I love what he does though.

Now I'm NOT aspiring to be him. I need flash. I need the zooms. But I am saying that his shots are heavily dramatic & sometimes have very strong shadows. He's is one of the highest paid photogs in the UK. And very sought after. Why, because he makes sure to get "that moment". He talked about it in the videos. And he does every time. It's the thing that makes people stop and look at his photos.

We pick things to death. We pick the technical things to pieces, we pick the clients to pieces...I'm not just talking about yesterday...one of Fafa's clients comes to mind as well. I know I did. I had a hard time getting past her prominent features to enjoy the photos. But the parents obviously did. To the tune of $700.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get better. I do. Badly. I hate making mistakes that take me hours to correct, if I can correct them at all.

But I think we have forgotten the reason we got into photography in the first place.

Forgive me for being too harsh a critic. For those of you that shoot for pay, if you client is happy that's all that matters.

[END Pontification] And thanks to anyone who actually took the time to read what I was thinking about.

Read the whole thing! Couldn't agree more.

Permagrin wrote in post #8785189
Okay Harm. I'm just about to process some renaissance fair shots. I wonder if I can do them in lightroom. I hate lightroom for processing. It'll be interesting to see.

I do about 95% of my processing in LR. Only rarely do I use PSE. Of course it shows in my shots too. *sigh* I have soooo much to learn.

Miniflash wrote in post #8785257
Not to get off topic just wanted to share this photo with you This is Dax when he was 2
His grandpa on his dads side was a avid train person , went on all the old steamers .And took Dax with him when he was young .

Cute shot Deb Good thing the photographer had a pond

DoodleBunz wrote in post #8784886
I'm awfully good at focusing too much on technical stuff, for sure. Not entirely sure how to change that thinking...guess just a little at a time.

Yes, you are!

Stop it!

Permagrin wrote in post #8784962
the thing is, I truly do not know how to balance out the technical with the rest.

I see what's wrong in every shot. I don't know how to let it go. I get so mad at myself for missing it at the time.

Then I go through the whole "I really do suck as a photographer. Whatever good shots happen, are just because I was lucky. People with skill, do it right in the tough situations."

I'm not looking for accolades. I really do think I'm lucky. Great light makes all the difference in a shoot for me. Even good light. Dappled light, like I had up at silver falls, really presented a challenge for me. I'm used to having about 50% of my shots to choose from after a shoot. On this last shoot, it was more like 20% That really threw me.

I wondered what I would do, if that happened at a wedding. Then I pretty much got beside myself.

Permie, I think you are very artistic in your processing. You definitely have a signature look...the glowy dreamy thing.

Truth be told, from what I hear outside the bar, a 20% keeper rate at times is awesome! And, we have to remember when thinking about other photographers....they'​ve been doing it longer, they have a bigger pile of good to choose from....odds are their pile of rejects is far greater than their good pile (just as ours are) and we just don't realize it because of the quantity of good. KWIM?

Permagrin wrote in post #8785068
I promise, I'm not looking for pats on the back. I really am not. I'm just at a crossroads of sorts.

Things make me think...all the time. I was just as moved to examine my work when Neil posted his wedding shots as I was when I was watching the JA thing last night. Neil managed to shoot, process, post & make a book in record time. Why? Because his shots were technically correct. They looked great. THAT'S huge. I know it comes with experience. I'm only...I dunno how long I've had a camera...but maybe 4 years. I'd have to go look at the dates. When I was in school I took classes...but it was all b&w film 35mm stuff. The only thing I really remember from that was the stuff we used to do in the darkroom when the teacher wasn't present.

For months now I've been at the "I either need to move forward with this business" or "stop it all together". I've been trying to assess whether I've got the skills to really invest more than hobby time to this. That's all. It's just hard to make a decision.

I told Cat, two weddings ago that I was going to quit. I meant it too. Too many disasters/frustrations​.

If I could pinpoint where I go wrong, that would help. I shoot the same way every time. Two weddings ago, was such a frustrating wedding for me. And I spent almost 2 months "fixing it". It was also bad lighting. Either harsh sun or dappled forest bright and darks. Then my last wedding was perfect. Like my first wedding was. I dunno.

Anyway, sorry for thinking aloud. I'm just as confused as ever.

I think part of the problem is that you are emotionally invested in your photography and more of a perfectionist. Sure, neil had stuff processed in record time but he's been at it a long time and well, he's a guy....maybe a little less into the emotional end of things.

Maybe use your facebook connections to offer a fun shoot for free every now and then....like to high schoolers or something. I'm planning on doing this eventually to try out new stuff (OCF and when I get another light). Not everything has to be about money and, well, it's fun to shoot where pleasing only yourself is the goal. Honestly, those days I played around in the spring with my students were amazing. I had fun, they had fun, there was no pressure, and I learned a ton!

You could always see if you can hook up with a bridal store and see if there might be a bride or two that would want to do a bridal shoot. Not quite wedding, but you could play with light and stuff that way.

And, perhaps shooting the same way every time is what's getting to you. Mix it up, mess it up, take a lesson from dan.....focus on the details at times.

cfpackerfan wrote in post #8785108
Great pontification, and I agree with you. Wholeheartedly.

I'm at that crossroads myself.
For me, though, it's almost like, do I want to even put forth the effort to try and improve myself? *shrug* I dunno anymore.

HAHAHAHA

Settling for just good enough are we?

short5 wrote in post #8785188
I have to disagree. A photograph of the incident IS news, it's photojournalism. Personally if I chose to look into a story such as that I want to see it as it was in real life. I don't trust a reporter, often with an agenda,to tell me about it. If the reporter wants to sensationalize it or down play it they can in text but I can still see for myself. I was more saying papers are in business to sell papers, and most reporters, no matter how unbiased they seem, want to spread their opinion. Reporting the terrible wreck, photo included, is what I look to the media for. If there was a brake failure problem that is common but ignored, that could be part of the story. I have a problem when news media looks for something scary or sensational to sell more stories. "Pulp trucks, Americas deadly secret", "gun toting soccer mom...." that kind of trash.

Ok, I see your point there. I guess it was just the personal aspect. I'm as much of a looky loo as anyone else.

Sensationalism is never good.

WOOL someone posted in the 5D thread to not use the sensor pen and go for eclipse swabs.

HELP!!!!

I have slurm the size of UFOs in my skies (ask diane...it's bad) and I need to get it cleaned off!!!

Miniflash wrote in post #8785257
Not to get off topic just wanted to share this photo with you This is Dax when he was 2
His grandpa on his dads side was a avid train person , went on all the old steamers .And took Dax with him when he was young .

Pete wrote in post #8785260
^^ Now that's cute ^^

^^^^THAT!

Thanks Pete he was a doll .Then again I"m his momma

Permagrin wrote in post #8785202
hmmm...I am going to do it. At least some. Just regular processing. Then post them. Then see if you guys still think I'm a good photog w/o my processing magic. It'll be a good experiment. IF you PROMISE to be honest. I think you'll see a middle average, non-dazzling, no style photographer.

Hey...no fair ripping my processing style off!:p

Miniflash wrote in post #8785257
Not to get off topic just wanted to share this photo with you This is Dax when he was 2
His grandpa on his dads side was a avid train person , went on all the old steamers .And took Dax with him when he was young .

SO CUTE!

Thats my ham bone ! lol Lisa he was a happy baby , not such a happy man

Deb, dax was a sweetie!

He looks SOOOOOOOOO much like you!

DDA wrote in post #8784735
And now, time for a TMSing alert!!!

Hi Didier, nice buy.

Permagrin wrote in post #8784788
I've never heard of those books. *looks suspiciously* are they...sci-fi?

PONTIFICATION TIME!

The Outlander series has a wee twist of sci-fi, but only a very small part. It is really a very good series, have a look.

Lisa, I think we all operate that way, in one form or another. Not only with photography, but all events in life. It is best to just do your best, and try to be happy with it. If I suffered my shortcomings too much, I woulda had to jump off a high bridge by now. We do learn by which you speak though, we just should not sweat it too much. I know, easy for me to say because I am not you, but it is my thought on it.

cfpackerfan wrote in post #8785108
For me, though, it's almost like, do I want to even put forth the effort to try and improve myself? *shrug* I dunno anymore.

Cat, whether or not you put in an effort to improve your photography or not, in the big picture I see you improving yourself and the lives of those around you (both human and beast ). This is what it is really all about, not the individual pieces, but the whole broad picture. Again, just one man's opinion.

Miniflash wrote in post #8785151
Lisa perhaps you just have to come to terms with not being perfect .
Not meaning anything harsh but perfection is a mindset ,it can be cahanged start showing some of your not so steller work , just for a while till you can let it all go .I"m just saying this because I"ve been there , why do you think I show such crappy shots ?? I struggled with perfectionism way to long now I really want to be a good photog but most of all I want to like me .I find when I'm being so critical about my stuff I"m really being mean to myself . ...off soap box ..now .

Excellent way of thinking Deb.

Permagrin wrote in post #8785189
Okay Harm. I'm just about to process some renaissance fair shots. I wonder if I can do them in lightroom. I hate lightroom for processing. It'll be interesting to see.

Like others, I do most of my processing in LR, I only use PS for levels for the most part.

Permagrin wrote in post #8785177
That would kill me. And probably teach me a lot.

Permagrin wrote in post #8785189
Okay Harm. I'm just about to process some renaissance fair shots. I wonder if I can do them in lightroom. I hate lightroom for processing. It'll be interesting to see.

The way I see things from many on these forums is that you can take a photo....and you know that you have PS to fall back on should your images turn out like crap...I know I do when I take a photo and it is too dark or something...but since I don't have PS or most other softwares to your levels, I end up concentrating more on getting the photo right so I have minimal needs for a computer (and you know how often I complain about this heap of crap)...

In your field though, the time you have to make sure the photo is right 1st time is pretty much nil, since you're doing weddings and people don't wait for a photographer...all you can do is practice. That is not to say "don't use PS at all, ever".

Try an experiment, where you try practicing / a project on something and know that you cannot use PS to correct any images. See how that goes. Sure the 1st time they may come out rubbish, but at least you know at the base on how to make them better next time...

Just my tuppence worth of thoughts (and not bird food)