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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 03 Oct 2009 (Saturday) 18:13
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ST-E2 and 2nd Curtain Question

 
TheFloridaShooter
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Oct 03, 2009 18:13 |  #1

I have been trying to shoot 2nd curtain off flash shots using a ST-E2 and either a 580EX II or a 430EX II without any luck. Is this even possible? I've tried setting this up on the XSi or the 50D. I can program 2nd curtain flash with the flash mounted on the camera but when I take it off and go through the ST-E2 I nolonger have the 2nd Curtain option.



What am I doing wrong?

Thanks


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k_strecker
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Oct 03, 2009 18:14 |  #2

you're shooting canon :(

duno why canon has set it up this way . . . but they have.




  
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TheFloridaShooter
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Oct 03, 2009 19:02 |  #3

I found the answer........... That sucks


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CliveyBoy
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Oct 03, 2009 19:50 |  #4

Canon prevent second-curtain except when full 6-channel communication between flash and computer is available, such as on-camera or full-service off-camera cable.

Remember that the main flash head emits the command to the slave to fire - while the shutter is open. That is true for front or rear curtain, but not HSS.

The light of the command flash illuminates the captured image, especially in low light. So with second curtain you would get blur - low flash - full flash on a moving object!

I understand that Nikon has a different arrangement, and people complain about the spurious illumination. Of course!


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monty28428
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Oct 03, 2009 20:14 |  #5

CliveyBoy wrote in post #8755190 (external link)
Canon prevent second-curtain except when full 6-channel communication between flash and computer is available, such as on-camera or full-service off-camera cable.

Remember that the main flash head emits the command to the slave to fire - while the shutter is open. That is true for front or rear curtain, but not HSS.

The light of the command flash illuminates the captured image, especially in low light. So with second curtain you would get blur - low flash - full flash on a moving object!

I understand that Nikon has a different arrangement, and people complain about the spurious illumination. Of course!

I like your explanation but I thought the ST-E2 used infra-red to communicate to the slaves -- thus there would be no light from the command flash (the ST-E2) to ruin the intended capture. If this is true your explanation does not make sense.




  
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PacAce
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Oct 03, 2009 20:54 |  #6

CliveyBoy wrote in post #8755190 (external link)
Canon prevent second-curtain except when full 6-channel communication between flash and computer is available, such as on-camera or full-service off-camera cable.

Remember that the main flash head emits the command to the slave to fire - while the shutter is open. That is true for front or rear curtain, but not HSS.

The light of the command flash illuminates the captured image, especially in low light. So with second curtain you would get blur - low flash - full flash on a moving object!


I understand that Nikon has a different arrangement, and people complain about the spurious illumination. Of course!

Not sure I follow your explanation of why 2nd curtain sync is not supported in wireless ETTL mode. How is the command flash firing just before the 2nd curtain sync flash goes off different from the command flash going off when 1st curtain sync is used in a low lighting environment?


...Leo

  
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CliveyBoy
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Oct 04, 2009 01:44 |  #7

monty28428 wrote in post #8755293 (external link)
I like your explanation but I thought the ST-E2 used infra-red to communicate to the slaves -- thus there would be no light from the command flash (the ST-E2) to ruin the intended capture. If this is true your explanation does not make sense.

You're right. Retires back to sick bed...


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
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Toneski
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Oct 04, 2009 03:03 |  #8

TheMissouriShooter wrote in post #8755032 (external link)
I found the answer........... That sucks

Hi Jon,

Do you have a link for the answer?

Thanks,
Tone.


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Hellbelly
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Oct 04, 2009 07:09 |  #9

The answer is......
It doesn't work :(
2nd Curtain only works with the flash on camera (or connected with an off-camera cable).


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PacAce
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Oct 04, 2009 08:49 |  #10

Hellbelly wrote in post #8757284 (external link)
The answer is......
It doesn't work :(
2nd Curtain only works with the flash on camera (or connected with an off-camera cable).

And to further clarify, 2nd curtain sync doesn't work when the flash is in wireless mode, either, even if it's sitting on the camera or connected to the camera via the off-shoe cord.


...Leo

  
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apersson850
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Oct 04, 2009 12:56 as a reply to  @ PacAce's post |  #11

Canon's slaves can normally not be used as ordinary slaves, i.e. triggering from just any flash. They have to be triggered by Canon's wireless system.
This works with a set of pre-flashes, to control metering and command the power setting. After the pre-flashes have fired, the slave is actually in "stupid slave mode" for a brief moment. This is to wait for the flash that fires from the camera when the picture is actually taken.
With 1st curtain flash, this trigger flash comes pretty soon after the command flashes. But if 2nd curtain sycn would be possible, the trigger flash could come any time after the command flash (at least 30 seconds, and worse if using Bulb), so they wouldn't know when to stop looking for it.

Nikon may have a different solution. I only know how Canon works.


Anders

  
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Curtis ­ N
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Oct 04, 2009 14:21 |  #12

Here's how to make this work.
1) Put your 430EX on the hotshoe, in manual mode, set for 2nd curtain. If you don't want it to contribute to the image then set it to low power, zoom it to 105mm and aim it at your slave.
2) Get an optical slave like this  (external link)for your 580EX II. Use that as your slave.


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tim
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Oct 05, 2009 04:49 |  #13

In five years of photography i've never needed 2nd curtain sync. I always wonder what people use it for, and if they actually needed it or not.


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GerBee
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Oct 05, 2009 07:03 |  #14

tim wrote in post #8762629 (external link)
In five years of photography i've never needed 2nd curtain sync. I always wonder what people use it for, and if they actually needed it or not.

It's main use in getting the flash trail effect with moving objects at night or similar type of situations.

If one is shooting a long shutter of a passing car, say 1/4 sec, then the flash illuminates first and make the car look as if it is going backwards.

If one uses second curtain sync the flash is at the end of the exposure and the flash trail is going the right way making the car look like it is going forward.




  
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District_History_Fan
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Oct 05, 2009 08:26 as a reply to  @ GerBee's post |  #15

Canon really needs to find a way to allow wireless 2nd curtain sync... That would be my default setting.


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ST-E2 and 2nd Curtain Question
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