Need your advice on going full frame...

I really don't know much about the full frame used market; what do you all think would be the best first camera to purchase for my entrance into the full frame world?

I am thinking 5D classic because I don't want to spend much over $1k, but what are some other options out there? I don't know much about the 1D line and what my budget can get me if I look into those cameras. I know my first lens purchases will be the 16-35L and a 50 1.4 to go along with my 70-200L.

I don't need high fps; if anything, I'd want good high ISO performance for low light photography, but that's pretty much it. So what are your thoughts, recommendations?

Thanks.

5D. It has everything you mentioned.
But finding one close to $1000 might be tough. Refurbs have increased to $1649, from $1399 a few months ago.
You can't touch a 1Ds anywhere near that price.

Brett wrote in post #8770464
5D. It has everything you mentioned.
But finding one close to $1000 might be tough. Refurbs have increased to $1649, from $1399 a few months ago.
You can't touch a 1Ds anywhere near that price.

Thanks--I figured I'd need to up my budget several hundred dollars. I'll have to keep an eye out for a used one in decent condition. Or maybe delay my lens purchases and spend more on the body.

High ISOs in 5Dc stops at 3200 (boosted). Native highest ISO is 1600. I have 5Dc now and I really don't like it after my 50D. Slow AF, slow fps, awkward menus, no built-in flash (means - no AF assist w/o external Speedlite), no ISO in VF, not that great high ISO capability, no live view - I wouldn't buy 5Dc for the money asked for it. Plus, you really need much more expensive lenses than for 1.6x crop cameras, since on crop you are benefiting from lenses' sweet spot and on FF you might have problems in corners. Reach range of each lens is also 1.6x times smaller (but this might be a good thing, if you use 16-35 and 50 lenses).
As to so called IQ.... It might be great, but what is the point in great IQ if your camera can't focus in time, or you missed the moment by trying to figure out which ISO is set (or shoot at too high/low ISO) or can't catch the proper picture because of low fps?
Why do you need FF? What exactly are you shooting?

Nervous wrote in post #8770535
High ISOs in 5Dc stops at 3200 (boosted). Native highest ISO is 1600. I have 5Dc now and I really don't like it after my 50D. Slow AF, slow fps, awkward menus, no built-in flash (means - no AF assist w/o external Speedlite), no ISO in VF, not that great high ISO capability, no live view - I wouldn't buy 5Dc for the money asked for it. Plus, you really need much more expensive lenses than for 1.6x crop cameras, since on crop you are benefiting from lenses' sweet spot and on FF you might have problems in corners. Reach range of each lens is also 1.6x times smaller (but this might be a good thing, if you use 16-35 and 50 lenses).
As to so called IQ.... It might be great, but what is the point in great IQ if your camera can't focus in time, or you missed the moment by trying to figure out which ISO is set (or shoot at too high/low ISO) or can't catch the proper picture because of low fps?
Why do you need FF? What exactly are you shooting?

Interesting take on things--thanks for the input. I'm fully aware of the 1.6x crop factor vs full frame, but never really thought much about your "sweet spot" comment--thanks.

However, I find myself shooting mostly stills (landscapes, portrait style photos) so I felt that my next *upgrade* should be to a FF camera. I figured that before my next purchase, I should purchase a camera that would best suit and enhance my shooting style. So, with the reading I have done so far, I figured that the move to FF would best suit my needs and also make most use of the glass (i.e. 16-35L), especially during wide landscape style photography.

While the slow AF may not be a big downside when shooting landscape, I occasionally have a family event or party/wedding of some sort I'd like to be able to take low light/high ISO photos in--has the AF in these types of circumstances left you often disappointed? The lack of built in flash is not much of an issue for me as I would supply my own.

And lastly, doesn't simply having the larger sensor benefit image quality in the end?

Thanks.

For landscapes 5Dc is a king, hands down. For shooting family events.... It might be ok, if you are not shooting running kids and everybody just sits still at the table Anything more dynamic may cause problems for 5Dc's AF.
Larger sensor theoretically should be better for DR and high ISOs, true. But don't forget this sensor is made using 4+ years old technology (maybe that is why the highest native ISO in 5Dc is just 1600).

Nervous wrote in post #8770682
For landscapes 5Dc is a king, hands down. For shooting family events.... It might be ok, if you are not shooting running kids and everybody just sits still at the table Anything more dynamic may cause problems for 5Dc's AF.
Larger sensor theoretically should be better for DR and high ISOs, true. But don't forget this sensor is made using 4+ years old technology (maybe that is why the highest native ISO in 5Dc is just 1600).

Is your camera broken? Running children are hardly a challenge for my 5D. If the AF on your camera is ineffective unless everyone "sits still at the table", something might be wrong with it.

The 5D continues to provide great high-ISO performance, even in comparison to the 5DII (which has a definite advantage, but isn't in the OP's price range), and recent tests suggest it may out-perform the 7D. It certainly has lower noise than any xxD camera. If you've read about shooting ETTR or the newer suggestion, HAMSTTR, the highest ISO one should shoot with EOS cameras is ISO1600 anyway.

jubu wrote in post #8770630
.....
And lastly, doesn't simply having the larger sensor benefit image quality in the end?

Thanks.

Yes.

5D vs 7D...

http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/82070​7/0#7603301

I think you'll like the 5D a lot, I have a feeling that this old technology camera is going to be popular for quite a while longer. The image quality is pretty outstanding and having had one, I doubt I'd ever go to one of the 1.6 cameras, I did move to a 1.3 camera and believe I do get better image quality but not by much, if you don't need the extremes, i.e. higher ISO of the MKIII or 5DII, the faster focus and incredible handling if the MKIII, then my first choice would be the 5D classic.

I think the offerings of the 1.6 cameras offer a lot until you get to publishing and then clients simply aren't interested, that's my experience. They don't look at 100% crops and side by side comparisons, my experience is that once the layout artist has your images, they simply want the best they can get to work with and for most things other than sports, full frame is the way to go. I'm feeling lucky I'm getting to use the 1.3 crop MKIII for some advertising work and expect at some point I'll have to go back to full frame.

I just have this feeling that for quite a while to come, the 5D classic will be a favorite for a lot of people and possibly the camera that others are compared to.

I would be a much richer person today had I waited another 6 months before selling my 5D classic, the prices continue to go up, this is interesting to watch, I'm wondering when this will start happening to the 1DsMKII which is also a stunning camera. But personally I'm looking at the 1DsMKIII, it's solid, great AF, awsome batteries,dust removal, micro adjust, don't know if it has the highlight priority setting which I use a lot, not the high ISO of the MKIII but rock solid image quality and I figure I'll be able to get quite a few years out of one simply because of the image quality for the way I work. But the 5D classic will get you top quality images in the same vein, it's just a really good camera.

Hi,

I added a classic 5D to partner my 40D not so long ago. I love the 40D and have had excellent results from it. However, recently I've been shooting both side by side and I find the results from the 5D are better all round. The pictures just seem crisper and the colours just... richer I guess!

I did the 'which one looks better' on my partner / kids and found they were picking the 5D pictures too

Just my penny's worth!

EHHH-hem,

Nervous wrote in post #8770535
High ISOs in 5Dc stops at 3200 (boosted). Native highest ISO is 1600. I have 5Dc now and I really don't like it after my 50D.

3200 on the 5d is much better than the 50d, and i never went higher than that on the 50d anyway

but you knew this. it's not a sports camera. however, did you activate the AF assist custom function? my center point hardly misses and I use it quite often to shoot tennis. the center point is more than enough to cover the occasional sports shooting.

you don't need high fps for 99% of the things you think you do.

the menu is great! its all right on one screen. love it

i mean, if you need it, its pretty frivolous, but you'd probably pay more for it anyway, and if you can afford a 1300 dollar camera you can afford a 430ex

uhmm. never understood this gripe. it's right there just push the button, you dont even need to take your eye off the viewfinder

i have both a 5d and 50d and the 5d absolutely destroys the 50d, no question.

you win this one

not true, because the FF sensor is much less demanding than the crop sensor. the pixels are bigger and much more spread out, so the 5d is less demanding on a lens. you also get to use the whole lens which brings out more characteristics...wide field of view...more separation...there is nothing bad about that! it's not like quality glass all of a sudden gets terrible outside of the so called "sweet spot". this sounds like something you are making up to try hating on the 5d. the 5d gave both my 70-200 and 24-70 new personalities that are nothing short of awesome.

more wide, more separation, less reach.

unless you are trying to shoot football or baseball with this camera (which i really hope not) that's kind of a bland argument

you dont buy this camera for the fps or focusing, and if you did you are quite misguided.

Nervous, Brett, versedmb, Jannie, skh and mikekelly...thanks for the comments...definitely a big help in making this decision.

With regards to shooting in 1600ISO, I'm not looking for a miracle, but hopefully something that will provide better grain and give me a higher number of "keepers" when compared to my XSi. The XSi however, has been better than I expected from a Rebel starter cam at 1600ISO to be honest. Do you see the 5D as giving me a decent increase in high ISO quality over the XSi? Thanks!

5d is quite a big step up from my XSi

Okay lets get real about the focus issue, for me the only time I didn't like focus on the 5D was shooting in very low light using the outer focus squares when I was shooting like at 1.2 or 1.6 with the 85L which is the slowest focusing lens of the entire Canon lineup, and this was when trying to shoot people (who move) where in reality with a full head shot there is something like an inch of depth of field, but yes you can get good shots if the near eye is absolutely sharp.

After I used the 5D for a while I found the 3fps really didn't give me much advantage.

I shot at 1600 ISO a lot when shooting stage, musical, event stuff, yes I missed a lot of shots on fast moving dancers but I shot a lot so I got plenty of great shots too, but when I did that I always shot with the AF on Al Servo with the expanded center spot and only used the center focus spot. It can be done very successfully.

On another note, compared to the way we worked with the old 35mm film cameras, the 5D is a rocket ship somewhere out in there in the future.

Brett wrote in post #8770464
5D. It has everything you mentioned.
But finding one close to $1000 might be tough. Refurbs have increased to $1649, from $1399 a few months ago.
You can't touch a 1Ds anywhere near that price.

I am not sure what you mean by that, the 1Ds classic regularly sells for under 1k and around 1k.

That being said I would not recommend it.