7D: Avoid BIF/DIF/*IF before MAF

Once your 7D does come in. Please, please do yourself a favor and do Micro adjust all your fast lenses. For all I know, half the problems with AF are a result of not understanding the need to MAF. Unless perfectly calibrated (on the one hand it probably makes everything expensive and on the other: unlikely, knowing Canon's QA folks).

I was like: "damn sigma". Brand new Sigma 30/1.4 with brand new 7D and all I was getting was softness (in Spot AF mode). I know how good the Sigma/50 was on my 5D2 and expected the same from the 30. I didn't want to bother with the lens align kit as it was useless in the past at the recommended 50X distance for the Sigma 50 and I wanted my main lenses dialed in before I head out to Laguna Seca tomorrow

Long story short. The Sigma 30/1.4 needed +12, my brand new 17-55/2.8 needed +10 and the 100-400 needed +9. I was shooting near and far objects and have probably taken some 200 shots just for MAF. If you spend enough time, the MAF can be made consistent for both ends of the zoom. Didn't have grass around for DOF indication but used other things.

MAF is a must for happiness. Especially if you expect happiness to arrive packaged with the 7D (And I do for the money I paid for it). Given how the lenses and cameras are calibrated to different references and not to each other. It is always a degree of how much MAF and not whether MAF is needed or not. The odds are quite low that your camera and lenses are perfectly matched.

MAF itself seems to be a vague thing if done with the wrong tools. For my 17-55, I measured the distance to an ojbect (cycle seat's back), looked up the DOF charts and started changing the MAF numbers till the expected rear DOF was achieved (entire seat to be in focus). Then confirmed DOF (rear/front) for a closer object by placing markers before and after the focal plane at the DOF limits.

The 30/1.4 is simpler to MAF as the purple/green loca helps to visually indicate DOF boundaries. Simply place a small item on a white paper (with a dark background). Basically any heavy contrast bg, figure out the DOF for the distance and simply adjust MAF till the purple/green spacing around the focal plane is correct.

Looking at the numbers, I think all my lenses (including the product of a much maligned Sigma QA) are very close to perfect calibration: the 7D however, seems to be consistently front focusing. All within tolerance I should think (as it falls in the MAF limits of +-20) but someone who didn't bother with MAF will end up feeling disappointed and curse the camera instead.

I would like my data point, however statistically insignificant, to help separate the actual AF performance for this body from issues caused by uncalibrated AF. I have high hopes that canon made the AF algorithms robust enough.

The 7D is real nice to hold. Much better in my hands than the 5D2. I am not used to (and hence dislike) the tightness of the rear-dial (5D was significantly easier to turn).

Canon preusmably increased the effort required to push bottons to prevent unintended button presses. However, there is some lack of consistancy. The difference in pressure required for most of the buttons is higher but the shutter button needs very low effort. This confuses the operation as I need to be firm everywhere except at the shutter.

The camera package as a whole is here to stay though! No buyers remorse whatsoever as most things work as expected and promised. I was happy with the ISO performance of my 20D, the 7D is decidedly superior. Low light AF is superb compared to the 5D2. No hunting with any of my lenses. Mirror slap is less (natural as the mirror is smaller and probably also much better damped to allow 8fps) and the camera therefore requires a lighter grip than the 5D did. The grip allows me to twist the camera down more easily (I push up on the bottom of the lens, twist the camera down and pull the camera into my face to stabilize it).

The only funny thing was the way the EP1 rewired my brain. I keep pressing on the bottom of the rear dial to move the menu items down . The EP1's dial rotates and clicks. My wirst realizes now how heavy the 7D+100-400 is: the EP1 has wimped me out.

happy shooting all! Remember "MAF could create big DIFF for DIF" (sorry.. couldn't help it)

I only MAF if I feel there's something wrong in regular shooting. That said, I am finding that my MAF values for my lenses haven't changed at all on the 7D.

nicksan wrote in post #8785081
I only MAF if I feel there's something wrong in regular shooting. That said, I am finding that my MAF values for my lenses haven't changed at all on the 7D.

Yeah, but you did set the MAF to the old values as your baseline and not 0 .

I am sure there will be quite a few cameras that come in well calibrated, if the bell curve is any indication, most might come in just a bit off. Mine was significantly off and it showed up in the first shot, hence the attempt.

I wonder if the one thread with all birds out of focus was probably because of out of whack AF needing MAF and not the actual AI servo algos failing. I am trying to bring this in as an important consideration: something worth attempting before maligning the camera's capabilities.

joove wrote in post #8785168
Yeah, but you did set the MAF to the old values as your baseline and not 0 .

I am sure there will be quite a few cameras that come in well calibrated, if the bell curve is any indication, most might come in just a bit off. Mine was significantly off and it showed up in the first shot, hence the attempt.

I wonder if the one thread with all birds out of focus was probably because of out of whack AF needing MAF and not the actual AI servo algos failing. I am trying to bring this in as an important consideration: something worth attempting before maligning the camera's capabilities.

I took a few shots, and felt they were slightly off, so that's when I dialed in my previous values that I used on the 1DMKIII I sold.

How come none of my lenses have ever needed MA until cameras with MA came out?

Now I just second guess myself every time I adjust.

The other thing that nobody seems to use, but you can set all lenses to a value other than 0, if you feel the camera is the issue, and all your lenses are good. Not sure how many people use that other MAF setting though.

sorry for the newb questions but:

what is MAF?
and
How do you do it?

iam thinking i need to upgrade my glass, the sigma 17-70 on my xti was good but on the 7d its okay...not as sharp. its getting replaced by 24-104l next week.

mikekelley wrote in post #8785234
How come none of my lenses have ever needed MA until cameras with MA came out?

Now I just second guess myself every time I adjust.

I'll second that!

How many acronyms can you get into one thread title? (most of which need explaining!)

mikekelley wrote in post #8785234
How come none of my lenses have ever needed MA until cameras with MA came out?

Because Canon was making sure that the cameras were OK. Nowadays, they don't adjust anything and ship cameras with MA instead so you do the job they did before.

nicksan wrote in post #8785178
I took a few shots, and felt they were slightly off, so that's when I dialed in my previous values that I used on the 1DMKIII I sold.

I was wondering if the values will always be the same? Meaning, I adjusted my lenses for my 5DMii, now theoretically, if my new 7d body is the same as the 5DMii, then I could just dial them all in the same. Does this theory hold true? If so, I would assume the same ratios, even if the body's calibration is different. On another note, I've always been confused as to what subject to camera distance I need to calibrate also don't really understand the 50x, etc. stuff. How far do I need to be for a 35mm, 85mm, 135mm, and 200mm in feet (don't mean to hijack the thread on the last part). Thanks.

Roy Mathers wrote in post #8786183
How many acronyms can you get into one thread title? (most of which need explaining!)

MAF = Micro Adjust Focus.
BIF = Bird In Flight.

the others I'm not sure, but I'd bet IF = in flight.

As for not needed it before, I'd bet the same lens could be off on an old body, but maybe you didn't peep as much? basically, I've found when I get a new lens/body I peep a bit to be sure it's good. Once I've verified it's indeed good, then I stop looking at 100% crops. If you though an older lens was good and stopped looking, but now have a body that can you're now looking closer than before. Plus more pixels may make it worse.

Moving from the 50D to the 7D, my MA values did not stay the same. They were in the ballpark, but definitely not the same. My 70-200mm was on the fence with the 50D at +19, but on the 7D +20 didn't even work. That lens is back at Canon now... All other lenses adjusted fine with adjustments ranging from -5 to +13.

int2str wrote in post #8786223
Moving from the 50D to the 7D, my MA values did not stay the same. They were in the ballpark, but definitely not the same. My 70-200mm was on the fence with the 50D at +19, but on the 7D +20 didn't even work. That lens is back at Canon now... All other lenses adjusted fine with adjustments ranging from -5 to +13.

Did the ratio's stay the same? For example if you had three lenses on Body 1, and they were +2 +4 and +6. Did you end up on Body 2 with, for example, +2 from the first body for an adjustment of +4, +6, and +8? Or were they all over the board?

I think the ratio _about_ stayed the same, but it seems like it was a bit multiplied on the 7D. So if we go with your example of +2, +4, +6, I may have ended up with +3, +6, +10 (1.5x factor). And while it wasn't exactly a 1.5x factor (it was less), overall it seems that the 7D control seems a bit finer than on my 50D. Unfortunately that meant it couldn't get my 70-200mm under control. Hopefully Canon will tweak that lens.