Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 large format view

I have created a tilt/shift adapter for a 35mm camera based on Cambo master PC 4x5 view camera. Not a new idea, but I want to share my efforts anyway
It accepts virtually any meduim format lens , larger format will work as well. The whole project cost me less than $400.
Here it is:

MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script

Not to sound arrogant or anything, but this whole gingantic set-up dealio you've put together is just so you can get the same effect as a tilt-shift lens?

I mean I know it's cheaper, but would you really want to take that hiking?

What other benefits would this provide? Seriously, I'm really asking and generally curious here, not being an ass.

Do not worry, MrGreen, I understand you
Yes, this is mostly for tilt-shift. (the rest of "mostly" is for ability to create a huge resolution photos by moving camera and stitching photos).
Unfortunately, there is not much tilt-shift lens selection available for canon 35mm.. Only 4 lenses from canon?.. None of them macro.. And, the ones we have does not give you a lot of tilt and shift angles, as field of view are narrow.

If you really want to have tilt shift, you have to use a medium format lens (where is projected fiedl of view is huge, so more tilt and shift is possible) with some sort of adapter, like these:
X2Pro: http://www.cambo.com …ish/internet/It​em752.html

Ultima 35 Camera system: http://www.cambo.com …lish/internet/I​tem85.html

They might be better, but cost much more ($2k and $4K respectively) .
So, I've decided to go my way. I will use it in a studio, so weight is not important to me. The rest is should be as good as on Ultima 35 Camera system, if not better.

I've used a Sinar to do the same thing.

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

Nice setup! Have you use medium format lenses with it? If yes, what kind?
I did the same thing first time: connected camera to a lens board, but found it to be too far form a lens that way, so I've connected camera to a bellows directly.

akoloskov wrote in post #8796380
I did the same thing first time: connected camera to a lens board, but found it to be too far form a lens that way, so I've connected camera to a bellows directly.

Agree 100%.

I haven't used any medium format lenses. I've used enlarging lens, APO Rodagon N 80/4 and Rogonar-S 105/4.5. This setup is fantastic for product or macro but I want infinity focus and wider lenses and it fails to do that with any lens shorter than about 100mm. I normally use a Rodenstock 150 large format lens because it allows full movement, infinity and has a Copal shutter so I can get 1/500th flash sync which helps with the stuff I like to do.

APO Rodagon N 80/4

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

JJ,
Wow! Nice shoot Very shallow dept of field! may work great for a product photography, as you mentioned.

Man, I've looked at your photos.. Great job, great cars ! I do own tuned (by me) Subary LGT 05 with alky injection, have lot of fun driving it.

As for a lens, I have no idea how wide I can go, as I did not try anything except Bronica 150mm with this setup yet.
However, I do not see any difference between my system and medium format camera, as I can have same (or even less, if use recessed lensboard) distance between lens and camera sensor medium camera has. I guess I could use Mamiya 35mm lens without any problem, it should be a room for some shift as well. (with camera connected directly to a bellows)
So far this is my speculations only , I did not try it, as I do not have such lens yet. For now I more interested in macro studio photography with this setup.
I'll post the test results soon.

Thank you!

WOW GUYS! I think you're on to something here!
John, Nice example of what you can do with that set up. Also, I like the way you have incorporated the people with their cars in some of those shots on your website. Good stuff.
-Bruce

This might help answer the question of how wide you can go. Sinar had special lenses made by Rodenstock for digital use they range from 28mm to 180mm.

http://www.calumetphot​o.com …f-4-0-cmv-lens-sinar.html


I'm not suggesting that anyone buy these as they are a bit expensive and have a built in shutter that wouldn't be needed. It would seem that a lot of lenses might work. Now I'm really glad I kept my Sinar, I might have to try this out. Just one question for rigshots, did you make the board for the EOS mount or can one be bought ready made?

John,
Can you, please, explain why it fails with any lens shorter than about 100mm? Can't get closed enough to a camera sensor? I never work on such setup before, so I need to be sure I understand it right. I found nice APO-RODAGON-N 50mm f/2.8 on ebay, thinking to get it.
So, would I be able to use it with my setup?
Thanks!

MrGreen wrote in post #8792372
Not to sound arrogant or anything, but this whole gingantic set-up dealio you've put together is just so you can get the same effect as a tilt-shift lens?

I mean I know it's cheaper, but would you really want to take that hiking?

What other benefits would this provide? Seriously, I'm really asking and generally curious here, not being an ass.

A TS lens on dSLR body only allows a single shift axis and a single tilt axis for lens only. A large format camera mounted dSLR can permit (depending upon the camera) shift in two axes (movements known as 'rise and fall' and 'lateral shift'), and tilt /swing in two axes for lens and tilt/swing in two axes for focal plane. Admittedly, if you take the dSLR with TSE, you can accomplish tilt of focal plane and lens simply by first changing the angle of the body relative to the subject, and then the angle of the TSE lens, but that still is limited compared to doing the same on the large format rail camera.

A question I have for the OP is if you have a large format lens mounted on the lens board, or if you placed some other lenses up front (even the TSE). Larger format lenses are limited in the resolution compared to 135 lenses, since they have to cover a much larger image area normally. This does give me some ideas for using my Horseman and adapting the use of some Sinar lens boards for mounting lens or body, using some M42-to-EF adapters!

Reminds me of the Arca Swiss M-Monolith my friend has with a Phase One P65+ back on it. Considerably cheaper though.

From what I read on another forum they were saying that using a 21mm tube mounted on a lens board was one way of adapting the camera body to the 4x5. They also pointed out that shadowing from the mirror box can limit the amount of adjustment you might get, especially for shift and stitch. It looks like a great way to use medium format lenses for macro. I have some enlarger lenses around somewhere and that might be what I try first. Now I just need to find a recessed lens board. Since I already have TS-Es I don't really want to spend a lot of money on this experiment. I agree with Wilt on the large format lenses, they might not have the resolution on the small sensor that some other lenses might give.

I am still choosing a lens, so far I've played with Bronica 150mm medium format lens attached to a lens board. Was not really impressed, I can say.
Originally I was thinking to use a medium format lenses witht this setup, but now, reading more and looking at Jon's photos I think I'll be using a
RODENSTOCK Enlarging Lens APO-RODAGON -N.. Huge resolution power with relatively inexpensive lenses.

akoloskov wrote in post #8798537
...Man, I've looked at your photos.. Great job, great cars ! I do own tuned (by me) Subary LGT 05 with alky injection, have lot of fun driving it...

Thanks, shooting cars is my day job. Some times a night job as I got home at 1:30 last night after shooting a car.

Ballen Photo wrote in post #8798646
WOW GUYS! I think you're on to something here!
John, Nice example of what you can do with that set up. Also, I like the way you have incorporated the people with their cars in some of those shots on your website. Good stuff.
-Bruce

Thanks Bruce.

akoloskov wrote in post #8798537
...As for a lens, I have no idea how wide I can go, as I did not try anything except Bronica 150mm with this setup yet.
However, I do not see any difference between my system and medium format camera, as I can have same (or even less, if use recessed lensboard) distance between lens and camera sensor medium camera has. I guess I could use Mamiya 35mm lens without any problem, it should be a room for some shift as well. (with camera connected directly to a bellows)
So far this is my speculations only , I did not try it, as I do not have such lens yet. For now I more interested in macro studio photography with this setup...

As long as you have the same minimum distance from your sensor to the lens flange as the original Medium format body then you can use any lens from that system. It looks like your setup is ideal for that. You should look into the Mamiya M645 lenses.

breal101 wrote in post #8798742
This might help answer the question of how wide you can go. Sinar had special lenses made by Rodenstock for digital use they range from 28mm to 180mm.

http://www.calumetphot​o.com …f-4-0-cmv-lens-sinar.html

I'm not suggesting that anyone buy these as they are a bit expensive and have a built in shutter that wouldn't be needed. It would seem that a lot of lenses might work. Now I'm really glad I kept my Sinar, I might have to try this out. Just one question for rigshots, did you make the board for the EOS mount or can one be bought ready made?

Thanks but those lenses are for a different kind of Sinar. Also a different kind of user, one with lots more money than I have!

To answer your question, I made the lens board, butchered a Toyo recessed lens board and attached it to a Sinar one. You can just buy a Sinar rcessed lens board if you prefer. I also built the rear board attaching the EOS body but you can buy similar on Evilbay. I built them because it was easier and cheaper for me and because I already had most of the bits. If starting from scratch then it's easier to just buy them.

I actually had almost everything I needed to build this setup just lying around. I have a second Sinar, a P, which is far more robust than the F that is pictured. I think the 'F' stands for flimsy! The Sinar P is a much better and more stable camera so is a far better choice but it is just so damn heavy (not a problem in a studio). All I had to do was make the couple of adapters for the front and back so for me this was a VERY cheap setup but of course if you don't have any of the gear then it could be fairly costly.

akoloskov wrote in post #8801067
John,
Can you, please, explain why it fails with any lens shorter than about 100mm? Can't get closed enough to a camera sensor? I never work on such setup before, so I need to be sure I understand it right. I found nice APO-RODAGON-N 50mm f/2.8 on ebay, thinking to get it.
So, would I be able to use it with my setup?
Thanks!

I'm not an optics expert so maybe some of my terminology is wrong but basically a 100mm enlarging or large format lens needs a 100mm distance (maybe focal length, to focus it's image at infinity. A 50mm lens needs 50mm to focus at infinity. If your minimum distance between the sensor and lens is longer than the focal length then you won't achieve infinity focus but you can still use it for macro. That's the problem I have with the 80mm APO Rodagon-N (it's a problem for me but not if all you shoot is macro). My sensor is too far from the lens to achieve infinity, even with the recessed lens board that I use. The lenses used on 35mm bodies are a different design (retrofocus I believe) which allows ininity focus on longer focal length lenses. I'm not sure about your setup or how you intend to use it. Maybe the 50 will be fine, maybe not. A longer lens gives you more room to work so I would probably avoid the 50 for that reason alone.

Wilt wrote in post #8801119
...A question I have for the OP is if you have a large format lens mounted on the lens board, or if you placed some other lenses up front (even the TSE). Larger format lenses are limited in the resolution compared to 135 lenses, since they have to cover a much larger image area normally...

I haven't used enough large format lenses to really comment but there are many large format lenses designed to be used with digital backs and their resolution is in no way inferior to any other lenses. In general, an OLD large format lens may not be as sharp as a good 35mm lens but I find that my Rodenstock Sironar-N 150/5.6 is a bit too soft wide open, sharp at F8 and excellent at F11. Mamiya M645 lenses have an excellent reputation and you will find that some of these are superior to many 35mm lenses, 120 Macro comes to mind, but most of them are excellent.

JJ