Terrible lighting, and high iso

This snaplocally had issues with adamcrow just a few days ago, and if you look at what he's recently posted, he isn't a professional as you'd presume.

This guy is cutting the throat of professionals!

I bet he isn't taking these pictures after all.

Thanks for the comments guy's!

Hey......you guy's and gals on here need to go back to some of his older posts and look at what he writes!

You're a funny little guy!

I thought this web site was a forum for photographers, not want to be's.

Snaplocally.....what should us hobby shooters use taking pictures.

After reading your other posts I really value your opinion!

You're making all these allegations, pounding out these 12 line tirades, studying my previous posts and my website like a Rosetta Stone, questioning whether I'm a photographer or not, and, according to you, I'm the one that needs to "get a life".

You are a funny guy as well, too bad it's entirely unintentional.

pete crawford wrote in post #8800928
Honestly, when I retire, I'd like to do this on a semi professional (maybe professional) level.

Hi Pete

just one small flaw in this is that when you are out there trying to do it semi or full time as a pro there will be a guy standing next to you doing it for fun and giving the pictures away.

I can only give a UK perspective on this but we have now reached the point were local papers will not pay for images even if the choice is poor but free or good but costs. They would rather print a poor image than part with money. I have had two local editors tell me this using just about the exact words I have used. Ok, one of them said 'Free even if it is crap wins every time with us'.

You are going to find it extremely hard to make a living at this as you have already determined the value of your product in many peoples minds. They don't appreciate or understand the skill, the time or the money that has gone into producing the images. Every image has a value and the value is determined by many factors but one of the more significant ones is the value the photographer places on his/her work. If you don't value your work in a monetary sense how do you expect a paying client will value it?

I have a good friend who shoots landscapes and puts in a huge amount of time and effort and considerable skill to produce some amazing images. He prices his images accordingly and they sell well. He has placed a value on his work.

John

Ha Ha.....Your funny snaplocally!

I can't believe after all this talk your an amateur hobbiest!

That's hillarious, you compared yourself to a professional.

you use your camera to get into events free, then undercut the real professionals.

What do they think about you?

While I'm doing nothing today, but letting you humor me, I'm gonna try and find out.

Care to share what arena you shoot in, just to save me some trouble, or are you gonna make it difficult for me.

Why don't you try and stop the smart alec remarks, or go to a forum where you'll feel more at home.

I really don't think the photographers on here act like you!

Pete
Hobby Shooter

John, your way does make sense. By the way, the local papers here don't buy pics either, they have their own photographers.

Thank you for putting it to me mildly.

Snaplocally made me blow this out of proportion. Understand, I do sell pictures, but I do reward those that buy them with extra shots. I'll keep 250 to 300 pictures of a football game. I can't sell all of those, but I make more on having that many photos posted. Like I've told my wife, I'd rather have my pictures out there to pleased customers than just setting there and many of them not sold.

I don't expect a parent to spend $100.00 a week on my pictures, they can't afford it.

Believe me, I do well enough.

Pete

Hi Pete

you have to understand your target market and it looks like you do. If it works for you and you are happy with the return for the effort invested then all is well.

I shoot a lot of local football as well as sport celebrity events. The pricing model for each is completely different just as the target market is different. If the local football crowd paid as much per print as the event photography does I would be a very wealthy man One is volume priced and the other is priced based upon the status of the celebrity. Two different markets with two different prices.

I have to say I have looked at snaplocally's work and web site and recently asked for assistance in an area that I have never photographed before and that he specialises in and he has been very helpful.

John

SnapLocally.com wrote in post #8801090
Giving work away goes past your own personal amusement. It does a disservice to photographers that take their work seriously, and rely on it for income. People become accustom to expecting free photography, and it's cheapening the trade across the board. But, as you've pointed out, that kind of money isn't an issue for you, so I don't expect other peoples money would either.

Certainly understand and respect your point about you valuing your quality images. And you do great work--no doubt about it. OTOH, many of us 'dads' who shoot high school sports have kids playing. We know the investment in time the students make, the travel and cash outlay the parents assume to keep the kids playing and active in athetics.

Unlike the fighters you shoot who are paid by promoters, high-school athletes don't earn a red cent to participate, practice and play. I'll speak for myself when I say that giving one of my son's teammates, coach or parent a 5X7 shot that cost me $1.47 from Wal-Mart without an invoice is much more rewarding than having them pay what someone else thinks the effort is worth.

If you were in my shoes, you'd probably do the same thing.

respectfully,

dave

I wouldn't give that guy a second thought he does not matter. I loved the photo what lens did you use?

Dave, what you're describing is more like a favor to a friend, and no, I don't take issue with that. However, once we step into the realm of large quantities of photos being widely distributed for minimal charge, we get have this sense of entitlement that all work should be free, and it ceases to carry any value.

Ironically, the vast majority of kickboxers I shoot are amateur, and as such, cannot accept payment. They are also some of my best customers. Pro boxers on the other hand, who make substantial monies, rarely buy anything. I know it was a minor point, but I just wanted to set the record straight.

Snaplocally......Now the real me. I don't know how my post offended you so much. Me saying I give away 90x more than I sell was over exagerating what I do. The PP that goes into these pictures, and then the couple parents that said they would take their own pics was me just talking.

Your pictures are to me, cropped awesome, exposed awesome, and the expression of them is second to none.

I'm no professional, but I'd say your pictures are very professional, and if someone doesn't buy those, shame on them.

I don't even know what it takes to be a professional, or what it takes to qualify. People ask me all the time when they buy pictures if I'm a professional. I really don't know what to say.

You are the type of photographer that people look to for advice, I know it sounds crazy, but you could make yourself better by helping. It will get your name out in a positive way, not negative.

I admit I was flashed with your post, incase you couldn't tell.

Pete

Harley...I used a canon 300mm 2.8 lens.

Thanks

Well, thanks.

I don't have an issue with hobbiest working for free and sharing their work, I really don't. In fact, I shot for about 9 months before I made my first sale, and gave out work here and there, just to make a few people happy and generate some buzz. The aggravating part is that everyone is expecting work for next to nothing, and it ain't just individuals, it also companies. And it's no wonder how the standard dropped. Have you checked out the competition on Craigslist? People are "working" for pocket change and beer money; weddings are going for $250. Bands are only offering "photo credits" for cd covers. Most people are looking for professional work for amateur rates. Even magazines are looking for free work, which is ridiculous.

^^This may sound contradictory, but I wanted to make a distinction. As an example, I from time to time encounter the odd photojournalist or blogger while I'm shooting. I'll give'em tips and answer questions when asked, fine. But then there's the guys that are hoping to "make it" or "get discovered" by giving it all away, and show up to every event. I worked at a nightclub that had a photographer at their beckon call for virtually every event, and he was producing great work. He signed their contract, and took the kind of shots they requested. He also never got paid a dime. He drove 45 minutes across town as much as 3 times a week for these 4-6 hour shifts for zero compensation. I tried to talk some sense into him:

"If you're not getting paid by the biggest club in town, who's going to pay you? You've been giving work away for so long now, if you ask for money they'll just replace you."

It didn't phase him; he kept his dream of "making it". Well, he didn't. The club closed, and his gear is collecting dust.

I am 'offered' no end of work for 'credits'. My response is "The day my kids get to the breakfast table and tell me they really fancy a big bowl of credits is the day I start shooting for credits".

Just to bring this full circle so to speak. Yours is a really good shot Pete with some good PP to retain the sharpness and detail without noise becoming an issue. Nice work.

John