DPP Summit

Mountain Drifter wrote in post #8844787
I've put those sliders to zero and still notice a difference.

I suppose I should ask an even more basic question (since I'm new to RAW), If viewed at the same size (800x600) should a RAW converted to Jpeg look exactly the same? Or do I need to account for some changes?

Exactly the same as what? the RAW before conversion or the camera generated JPG? Normally the JPG derived from conversion should look the same as the RAW but if there is also a downsizing done as part of the conversion process the result may differ. Downsizing usually gives the appearance of a sharper image, and it can even look over-sharpened at times.

I think you'd have to get inside the heads of the people who wrote the program to know exactly what happens to RAW file data when it is converted to any other format. But why worry about that? If the RAWs came out the same as the JPGs there would be no advantage to shooting in RAW and converting. The whole point of shooting in RAW is to be able to make more refined adjustments to the original data as captured by the camera than are available by using the camera's settings, or can be made after the camera's settings and conversion procedure are applied.

Working from a RAW file you have more things you can adjust (like white balance) and more latitude to adjust the normal camera-applied parameters (like sharpness and contrast, etc). And RAW files will accept a wider range of exposure adjustment than JPGs.

Just make the converted JPGs look the way you like them and don't worry about if it looks the same as the way any program renders a RAW file. How the finished product looks to you is what's important.

patwill wrote in post #8844917
Exactly the same as what? the RAW before conversion or the camera generated JPG? Normally the JPG derived from conversion should look the same as the RAW but if there is also a downsizing done as part of the conversion process the result may differ. Downsizing usually gives the appearance of a sharper image, and it can even look over-sharpened at times.

I think you'd have to get inside the heads of the people who wrote the program to know exactly what happens to RAW file data when it is converted to any other format. But why worry about that? If the RAWs came out the same as the JPGs there would be no advantage to shooting in RAW and converting. The whole point of shooting in RAW is to be able to make more refined adjustments to the original data as captured by the camera than are available by using the camera's settings, or can be made after the camera's settings and conversion procedure are applied.

Working from a RAW file you have more things you can adjust (like white balance) and more latitude to adjust the normal camera-applied parameters (like sharpness and contrast, etc). And RAW files will accept a wider range of exposure adjustment than JPGs.

Just make the converted JPGs look the way you like them and don't worry about if it looks the same as the way any program renders a RAW file. How the finished product looks to you is what's important.

When I said exactly the same, I was referring to RAW to Jpeg conversion, when I make no other changes. For a minute forget the camera Jpeg, lets just talk about one raw file opened in DPP. I like what I see, I convert to Jpeg making no other changes, with no NR, and it's not as sharp. Sure I can sharpen the resulting Jpeg but is it normal to take this extra step?

I do understand the advantage of RAW and when I've made color/brightness changes to a RAW image and then convert to Jpeg the resulting Jpeg is faithful to the changes I made in Raw with no further processing required. I'm wondering why the sharpness isn't the same?

Ummm, guys, the word you want is algorithm, not logarithm....

number six wrote in post #8845439
Ummm, guys, the word you want is algorithm, not logarithm....

Ha, yeah. I just let the spell checker put the wrong word in.

Mountain Drifter wrote in post #8844739
I don't want the Jpeg the same as it's processed from the camera. I really like the way it looks opening the RAW file in DPP. Is that where the different logarithm would take place? If so I like it. I want to keep the same level of sharpness as it gets converted from CR2 to Jpeg in DPP, and right now it doesn't. Is that normal?

Yeah, i was just pointing it out.

Apparently RIT will apply the same processing as the camera does, Never really tired it though.
Im really a LR2 man so i cant really comment how DPP does things. I guess if you find the answer you could use the profile editor to set up a default one with the right amount of sharpening.
Its a shame we cant add or edit profile sin camera like in my 40D.

Mountain Drifter wrote in post #8845104
When I said exactly the same, I was referring to RAW to Jpeg conversion, when I make no other changes. For a minute forget the camera Jpeg, lets just talk about one raw file opened in DPP. I like what I see, I convert to Jpeg making no other changes, with no NR, and it's not as sharp. Sure I can sharpen the resulting Jpeg but is it normal to take this extra step?

I do understand the advantage of RAW and when I've made color/brightness changes to a RAW image and then convert to Jpeg the resulting Jpeg is faithful to the changes I made in Raw with no further processing required. I'm wondering why the sharpness isn't the same?

I just did some eyeball comparisons of about a half dozen of my finished JPGs to the original RAW file with my adjustments saved. For this comparison I used shots that were not cropped before conversion & downsizing. I cannot see any difference in sharpness when I switch back & forth between them viewed at "Fit to window" size. These were taken with 1DMkIIn (8 mp) and the JPG downsized to 2000 pixels on the long side.

Do you see the difference when comparing a file that has been converted without any downsizing or compression?

When you're looking at the "normal" view in DPP, you aren not really viewing the actual sharpness -- to do that, zoom to the 100% view and adjust the sharpness to taste, then I believe in DPP you can use the Apply function to apply this to the preview.

Another thing to bear in mind is that "sharpness" is not a single factor -- it includes both the detail that was captured and a selective contrast applied by the sharpening software, but also overall contrast/clarity that gets applied by you in your Raw software. Increasing the contrast of your Raw image can add a lot to the perceived sharpness.

tonylong wrote in post #8847093
then I believe in DPP you can use the Apply function to apply this to the preview.

"Apply" is for NR. Sharpening is updated automatically

René Damkot wrote in post #8851575
"Apply" is for NR. Sharpening is updated automatically

Ah, good that someone who knows what I'm talking about knows more than I do

Zazoh wrote in post #8837647
Quick Culling -- Open DPP and go to the folder you want to view. Go to Tools | Quick Check go to full screen mode. Use the arrows to scroll through images use the numbers to rate the photos, I use 3 for trash and 1 for keepers two maybes.

When you hit the end, press esc and go back to the normal view, go to edit, select check mark 3s and delete.

Process your 1's then output. THen go back to your two's and rate as either 1 or 3. After you process yours first ones, you will know what you want.

Rinse, lather repeat.

I can do Hundreds of photos in minutes this way.

Thanks... I can now stop shooting JPG..... I did not know that you could do this... I was shooting JPG/RAW...... JPG was just for looking...keep ot ditch.....only because of no other way to look at RAWS fast..... well now I can....

Thanks

dave_bass5 wrote in post #8844675
I believe that DPP uses a different logarithm to the camera. In the past if you wanted to get the same processed JPG as the camera produces its best to do it in the Canon RIT that comes with ZoomBrowser.

Where are you getting this information? ZoomBrowser uses the SAME EOS SDK dll's as DPP does. In other words, ZoomBrowser RIT and DPP are different UI's around the same "processing engine"

BigBlueDodge wrote in post #8855745
ZoomBrowser uses the SAME EOS SDK dll's as DPP does. In other words, ZoomBrowser RIT and DPP are different UI's around the same "processing engine"

No.
Give it a try. DPP and RIT are different, conversion wise.

BigBlueDodge wrote in post #8855745
WZoomBrowser RIT and DPP are different UI's around the same "processing engine"

Certainly not in the past. Do a search for this and you will get more information. I dont use RIT so cant offer any proof but its been like this for years as far as i recall.

EDIT: opps, beaten by Rene.

For an expert opinion check with Pixmantra who originally based his FlexNR on RIT and later expanded it to accomodate DPP and LR.

patwill wrote in post #8846398
Do you see the difference when comparing a file that has been converted without any downsizing or compression?

When I convert to Jpeg I don't do any resizing and I leave the quality slider at 10. The dpi # is at 350 which is the default setting, I'm not sure if that would make a difference (?)


After trying a few more things I keep wondering if I'm missing a step. When I open a RAW file the only thing I've changed is to set NR at zero (click apply) leaving everything else at default, including the Sharpening at 7 which is default as well. When I convert and save to Jpeg and open in the image edit window the NR sliders in the Raw box are showing default settings of Luminance 1 Chrominance 4, but these are of course not adjustable as now I'm looking at a Jpeg. Is this right?

The other thing I've noticed is when looking at my converted Jpeg, is if I switch back to the original Raw and reduce the default sharpening of 7 to zero the two files do look almost identical now, is it possible that for some reason that sharpening isn't being applied when saving to Jpeg?

I've been working around this by simply adjusting the sharpness of the resulting Jpeg, but I plan on using this program often and that's just one more process that takes time.

Edit: I don't know if it's any different but I'm using DPP 3.7.2