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Thread started 18 Oct 2009 (Sunday) 12:55
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golfecho
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Feb 08, 2011 07:23 |  #241

Some folks assume that the Blues and T-Birds are flying the newest jets out there, but in reality, both teams are flying some of the oldest jets of the type in their respective inventory. They have bells and whistles to some extent, but for the most part, they still have the old steam-gage instrumentation, and not the fancy glass that can now be found in the newer versions of the jets . . .


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Gary ­ McDuffie
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Feb 08, 2011 07:56 |  #242

And that's a good thing, per my limited knowledge. Old steam gauges are quicker and easier to read and more predictable.


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golfecho
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Feb 08, 2011 09:40 |  #243

Gary McDuffie wrote in post #11800586 (external link)
And that's a good thing, per my limited knowledge. Old steam gauges are quicker and easier to read and more predictable.

Actually the better answer is "it depends". The newer glass displays have greater reliability (from a mean time between failure perspective), and have been specifically designed from a human factors perspective to provide information to the pilot in a more effective manner, with more info available continuously. However, all these benefits are based on a purely objective analysis. Given two individuals who get trained on the two different "systems", the digital display trained pilot will have better situational awareness, etc. The problem happens (and this is where your comment likely comes from), when those who are trained in one environment must cross-over to the other one. How you were trained, and what your are used to have a huge impact on how well you do in the other environment.

I know of a military crash where a plane was recently upgraded from one form of instrumentation to a more modern form, and when a serious emergency occured, the pilot who was very experienced in the "old format", was seriously handicapped by his unfamiliarity with the new display formats.

I have always thought that planes should have a wide and flexible color multi-function display, and then let the pilot decide how he wants his data displayed. If he likes round-dial stuff, select that type of display. If he likes strip displays, he can select that. I think that he could lay out his personalized display with any combination of supporting data surrounding his choice of format, and have a custom display he is likes best. That would, IMO, be the ultimate advantage and flexibility of a fully digital aircraft backbone.


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Gary ­ McDuffie
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Feb 08, 2011 10:35 |  #244

I'd have to agree on the "upbringing" part of that for sure. I learned on old gauges. I think I would have trouble converting (especially as I have put on many years since then).

Being able to recognize a situation at a glance is key in being able to handle emergencies. If you have to glance at the gauge and then make sure you are 'converting' that correctly in your brain, precious time can be lost.

Take the simple clock. Glance at a normal round clock, and most people instantly know what time it is. Try that with a digital clock. You have to stop and READ the numbers on the digital clock and then digest them to know what time it is. I've had almost exclusively digital clocks in my life since the 70s. Even today, it is faster glancing at an analog clock.

In the glass cockpit, is there extra lag time in things, like there is in car computer systems? That's one thing that turns me off. I think some of the car systems are running on processors scrounged from old Commodore's. :)


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FlyingPhotog
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Feb 08, 2011 10:42 as a reply to  @ Gary McDuffie's post |  #245

Haven't flown behind glass but simulator experience has shown me the benefit of being able to get an overall SA snapshot off a PFD Vs having to scan.

I agree with the notion of "upbringing" though. Plus, steam gauges won't throw a BSOD at you...! ;)


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Gary ­ McDuffie
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Feb 08, 2011 10:47 |  #246

I shudder when I see those Ford commercials for the car that runs Microsoft. Yikes!


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JHutch
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Feb 08, 2011 10:50 |  #247

Gary McDuffie wrote in post #11801545 (external link)
I shudder when I see those Ford commercials for the car that runs Microsoft. Yikes!

I felt sickened when I saw the facebook status update car during the superbowl...


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ryanapem
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Feb 08, 2011 11:05 |  #248

I'll agree with you here, I think it is natural and understandable that people will do better using equipment they are familiar with. However, on a specific note I disagree with you:

golfecho wrote in post #11801099 (external link)
Given two individuals who get trained on the two different "systems", the digital display trained pilot will have better situational awareness, etc.

I don't think it is safe to make a broad statement like that. In fact, with regards to instrument flying (where situational awareness is CRITICAL) I'd say it is safer to say the opposite, that a steam-gauge pilot has more situational awareness. Learning on steam gauges brutally forces you to constantly keep track of your SA, thus making the pilot more aware and developing that skill. In the glass world, all that information is clearly, understandable and effectively given to you. It really takes very little thought and effort to keep up with SA in a glass airplane. I guess I'd sum it up as pilot-for-pilot, the steam pilot will be more aware, while equipment wise the glass airplane provides more situational awareness. Just my thoughts.


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FlyingPhotog
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Feb 08, 2011 11:19 as a reply to  @ ryanapem's post |  #249

It's interesting to me how far down the flying ladder "systems management" has crept.

Amazing to think that in something as simple as a Skyhawk, "George" can now fly a coupled approach and all pilot has to do is monitor the system (and be ready to hand fly at the first sign of deviation of course...)


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Feb 27, 2011 21:49 as a reply to  @ FlyingPhotog's post |  #250

Neptune

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Leeuwarden
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Feb 28, 2011 01:35 as a reply to  @ cupra103's post |  #251

Do you have a picture of the whole Neptune?
This looks like it is not one of those firefighting Neptunes.
Can you tell something about this one?


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cupra103
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Feb 28, 2011 01:38 |  #252

Leeuwarden wrote in post #11927610 (external link)
Do you have a picture of the whole Neptune?
This looks like it is not one of those firefighting Neptunes.
Can you tell something about this one?

look here

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1006519

cheers

Phil


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Leeuwarden
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Feb 28, 2011 01:39 as a reply to  @ cupra103's post |  #253

Thanks!


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RFDGuy
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Aug 06, 2011 00:19 |  #254

Time to resurect this thread!!

Mace of Viper West making sure his G suit works..

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Snort doing what Snort does...this time in a the Heavy Metal Mig-17
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Aug 06, 2011 03:57 |  #255

A few for this thread seen as its nearly 2 years since I last posted in here

IMAGE: http://www.chrisprocter.com/Airplanes/Air-Ambulance-for-Matt/i-mB4bDDR/0/XL/G-AXKX-2-XL.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.chrisprocter.com/Airplanes/Air-Ambulance-for-Matt/i-fzSjZGd/0/XL/Gun-chopper-1-XL.jpg

Top Marks for anyone who can identify this aircraft
IMAGE: http://www.chrisprocter.com/Aircraft2011/Breighton/G-BAAD/1233750011_f24hE-XL-1.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.chrisprocter.com/Aircraft2011/Breighton/i-WHp5wrr/0/XL/G-ECAN-XL.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.chrisprocter.com/Aircraft2011/RAF-Leeming/SAS-Rope-training/1229917852_uvnZg-X2.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.chrisprocter.com/Aviation-2009/Bowland-Forest-Gliding-Club/CRIS1332/627553381_X9z3w-XL.jpg

regards
Chris

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