flash modifiers outdoors

neil van niekerk in his book says the use of a flash modifier outdoors at night with the head at a 45 degree tilt so that the foreground is lit only by light feathered from the flashgun ( i.e purposely not exposing properly) may be helpful
does this go against conventional wisdom that there is no value to the use of flash modifiers outdoors ?

The usefulness depends on what you want as a result in your image. Such as, do you even want the fore ground lit at all? As with everything in photo, there is no one way/one answer to anything. To find out if it will help you, you simply have to do it for yourself and see what results you can achieve and then how to work those results into a image successfully.

I have tilted an unmodified flash head to keep from lighting up the foreground too much. I hadn't thought of using a modifier, but I suppose that would work as well – maybe even better. It will still use up a bunch of light, but you may not need as much as the flash is capable of producing. At least there is finally a use for one of those things.

The advice about using a modifier outdoors usually only applies to things like the stofen which dont soften anything unless they can bounce. If you have a powerful enough light you can use umbrellas, or softboxes outdoors. The situtation you describe at night is a bit different in that you are using a modifier to feather the light, rather than soften the shadows.

the only thing I use outdoors is a warming gel

patrick clarke wrote in post #8845704
neil van niekerk in his book says the use of a flash modifier outdoors at night with the head at a 45 degree tilt so that the foreground is lit only by light feathered from the flashgun ( i.e purposely not exposing properly) may be helpful
does this go against conventional wisdom that there is no value to the use of flash modifiers outdoors ?

What kind of flash modifier?
The answer to that question will make a huge difference.

Feathering the light to avoid overexposure of the foreground is a sound concept, but executing it properly would involve a lot of trial and error.

SMP_Homer wrote in post #8847501
the only thing I use outdoors is a warming gel

Why? Sunlight's about 5500K, shade's about 6500K, and flash is about 5500K. Add a warming gel to a flash and it matches tungsten, which is around 3200K. That sounds kinda backward but I think it's right...

Are you talking about the black foam thing? He typically uses it as a flag to prevent direct flash falling on the subject.

tim wrote in post #8847838
Why? Sunlight's about 5500K, shade's about 6500K, and flash is about 5500K. Add a warming gel to a flash and it matches tungsten, which is around 3200K. That sounds kinda backward but I think it's right...

Is that assuming we're in the middle of a summer day?

patrick clarke wrote in post #8845704
neil van niekerk in his book says the use of a flash modifier outdoors at night with the head at a 45 degree tilt so that the foreground is lit only by light feathered from the flashgun ( i.e purposely not exposing properly) may be helpful
does this go against conventional wisdom that there is no value to the use of flash modifiers outdoors ?

Neil van Niekerk starts his section 9. Using Simple Flash Modifiers with a caution. "Avoid the mindless default of popping a diffuser cup..." He points out many circumstances where such modifiers would NOT help. Having established "don't use", he struggles to give cases where "except" might apply.

Neil argues (very effectively) for a precise placement of the bounced pool of light to give the desired direction of light, and the use of the Black Foamie Thing to prevent direct forward light from the flash. He then says "These diffuser cups do come in handy for specific purposes" and "Outdoors... little sense... except using a wide angle lens".

So, Neil does reject "there is no value to the use of flash modifiers outdoors" and tries to find cases where it may be appropriate. I do not believe that the OP's statement is in fact "conventional wisdom", and it is not wisdom as it is wrong. David Hobby (The Strobist) shows in several of his blogs that bare bulb flash using a stofen type of modifier is precisely the way to go.

SMP_Homer wrote in post #8850430
Is that assuming we're in the middle of a summer day?

Yeah, 5500K is the sun on a bright sunny day. On cloudy days it's more like 6500K, and can make it to even 10K on really cloudy days late in the day.

Sometimes doesn't feel right about my numbers though. Adding a cto gel to the flash makes it match tungsten, which is around 3200K. My feeling is the light gets warmer in the evening, not cooler, but the numbers say it gets more blue... hmm.

thanks for the replies everyone
as cliveboy said neil was referring to the use of the omnibounce

tim wrote in post #8852705
Yeah, 5500K is the sun on a bright sunny day. On cloudy days it's more like 6500K, and can make it to even 10K on really cloudy days late in the day.

Sometimes doesn't feel right about my numbers though. Adding a cto gel to the flash makes it match tungsten, which is around 3200K. My feeling is the light gets warmer in the evening, not cooler, but the numbers say it gets more blue... hmm.

Put a warm gel on your strobe, white balance for tungsten, and you push your background to much cooler shades while keeping the color on your subject the same. Or, put a 1/4 or 1/2 CTO on the subject, white balance for daylight, and just enjoy the slightly warmer color temp on the subject. Obviously it doesn't work in all situations, but it works great in some (like pushing a just-after-sunset beach shot to a nice cool blue background)

bieber wrote in post #8854316
Put a warm gel on your strobe, white balance for tungsten, and you push your background to much cooler shades while keeping the color on your subject the same. Or, put a 1/4 or 1/2 CTO on the subject, white balance for daylight, and just enjoy the slightly warmer color temp on the subject. Obviously it doesn't work in all situations, but it works great in some (like pushing a just-after-sunset beach shot to a nice cool blue background)

Don't give away all the secrets

I was enjoying the assumptions