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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 20 Oct 2009 (Tuesday) 23:13
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1D MK IV vs. D3s - Final Showdown!

 
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mattograph
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Oct 21, 2009 11:30 |  #61

ed rader wrote in post #8865760 (external link)
"...flagship sports model."

ed rader

This looks like fun.

Searching the Gear Sig thread, 282 people list "1D" in their entries, out of just over 2000. Of those people, I am sure a couple have listed something to the effect of a "wish list" or "used to own". So lets say 10% of those folks currently own a 1D.

Of those, I will bet maybe 25% can, in 10 seconds or less:

* change their AF tracking speed
* customize their fps
* Set the camera to spot meter on the selected AF point
* Switch their primary and secondary card write settings
* Find their #3 custom WB setting
* Disable ROF
* change their maximum burst settings

I could go on forever, but the point is this. Debating over a camera that most of us will never own, and if we do, will never use to its fullest capability, is kinda stupid. Leave that stuff to the folks at Pop Photo. Worrying about this stuff is a sure sign that you aren't taking enough pictures.

Nikon makes good cameras. Canon makes good cameras. I have never had a client insist on knowing which I shoot before they pay me. And if you don't get paid to do it, you should worry even less about it.


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Iocol
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Oct 21, 2009 11:41 |  #62

This is an online forum and people will have all kinds of opinions. Obviously you're going to need to have some discernment and tune out some comments. Let's face it- most of us here like to talk big about equipment but haven't even tried it. I value comments from people who actually own or use Mark IIIs, D3's, etc. Everything else is just conjecture. As long as you keep that in mind, you won't get upset or all riled up by ignorant comments.

In my experience, people who feel the need to defend their purchases or bash another product have insecurity issues or need to justify their decisions to stick with a brand. At the end of the day, you're taking a photo...both Canon & Nikon offer amazing products. Really, can you go wrong with either? I love a good debate, don't get me wrong, but let's be real here - we're nitpicking between two $5000+ flagship cameras (neither of which have been released or tested by the general public btw).


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jacobsen1
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Oct 21, 2009 12:25 as a reply to  @ Iocol's post |  #63

Yeoer wrote in post #8864384 (external link)
Yes but in a highspeed sport/reporter/wildlif​e camera you don't want it... i know the D3s has DX mode but at only 5 or so MP so really i see in this type of camera the FF as a bit of hinderance rather than a plus.

people never bitched about FF in the film days. Plus, with the ISOs they're now giving us, a 1.4TC works pretty well and it's 1 stop ISO hit wouldn't even matter.

mattograph wrote in post #8865937 (external link)
Nikon makes good cameras. Canon makes good cameras. I have never had a client insist on knowing which I shoot before they pay me. And if you don't get paid to do it, you should worry even less about it.

I actually had a client ask me why nikon the other day. Not that he'd seen anything in the images, just that all the other pros he'd used shoot canon and I was the only one who didn't. Interesting comment.

Personally, I'm with snir, only I switched to a D700 system and have stayed. It's a much better camera for me than the 5Dii. I agree canon makes better lenses but I've found what I need with Nikon and it's been working for me. Nikon actually has a few better lenses (yes I said it) but overall the system isn't quite as good. But the D700 is my ideal body and I've been happy with it for the most part (it's got as many issues as any canon does, I've never had a perfect camera).


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eelnoraa
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Oct 21, 2009 12:45 as a reply to  @ jacobsen1's post |  #64

Personally, I'm with snir, only I switched to a D700 system and have stayed. It's a much better camera for me than the 5Dii. I agree canon makes better lenses but I've found what I need with Nikon and it's been working for me. Nikon actually has a few better lenses (yes I said it) but overall the system isn't quite as good. But the D700 is my ideal body and I've been happy with it for the most part (it's got as many issues as any canon does, I've never had a perfect camera).

I am with you on this one. I only have limited experience with D700, but I do like it better for a still camera. Features in D700, like overlay viewfinder, levelers, are supprisingly useful. It seems Nikon's chosen features are more useful than those in 5DII. AF sensor location is much better than 5D/5DII. IQ is about the same at low ISO, but D700 is noticeably better at high end (at pixel level).

Having that said, is it good enough for me to switch? no really for 2 reasons: 1)I own a collection of Canon lens, I don't want to have to sell them, take a lose. 2)I still believe the limitation is the user (in this case, me), not the equipment. I don't think my IQ will improve dramatically. But if I were to start from skretch today, I will probably go with Nikon.


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zaathrus
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Oct 21, 2009 12:48 |  #65

blonde wrote in post #8865826 (external link)
as for your bet, i think that i will take you on that one. i will bet that 99% of the people that are in this thread right now talking **** back and forth haven't used a Nikon at all and don't know much about the Nikon system. Go look at the "official release" thread and you will see why you would lose this bet. people that are calling the mkIV the great messiah are asking if the Nikon has features like High Light Tone priority. People that hail the canon never even used a Nikon lens in their life and yet they will harp on the "canon makes better lenses" which is a completey crock of #$%. they make more lenses and they make cheaper lenses. yes they have some better lenses but they also have some worse lenses.

Let me put it this way - if your livelihood does not depend on photo taking and you currently use Canon, why would you even consider Nikon (et vice versa)?

Or as Master Yoda may have said, "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny". ;)

TBH it's only those people where the choice is critical to their income that I can understand making some sort of an issue over this but certainly not as big as I keep seeing. It's almost as if it's a religion!


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nicksan
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Oct 21, 2009 12:51 |  #66

zaathrus wrote in post #8866396 (external link)
Let me put it this way - if your livelihood does not depend on photo taking and you currently use Canon, why would you even consider Nikon (et vice versa)?

Or as Master Yoda may have said, "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny". ;)

TBH it's only those people where the choice is critical to their income that I can understand making some sort of an issue over this but certainly not as big as I keep seeing. It's almost as if it's a religion!

Actually, to the contrary, if your livelihood depended on it, why would you switch an entire system? That to me is more risky than folks who are doing it b/c they have gear envy/lust.




  
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radiohead
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Oct 21, 2009 12:51 |  #67
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Ocean Blue wrote in post #8865536 (external link)
Love the new(ish?) site Guy - and your gallery shots are just great, nice work. To the thread, the 1DMk IV looks fantastic; really exciting camera. And the D3s looks to be a fantastic camera, although not one that Nikon shooters were waiting breathlessly for (the D700/D3 crowd seems pretty content) but a little higher ISO and video options for those who are packing stills / video together for weddings and engagements is nice.

Thanks very much. It's appreciated.

Ed - you've made your choice, that's great. I'm happy you're happy, seriously.

Here's one you can quote me on - keep it for posterity. There's zero chance of me dropping Nikon.

So we're both happy. Quite why you feel the need to make the snide comments is beyond me. It's a useful forum. I don't feel the need to enbed myself in Nikon only forums. Having strong competition is what gets us cameras like the 1D4 and D3s. So why the aggro?


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blonde
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Oct 21, 2009 12:54 |  #68

zaathrus wrote in post #8866396 (external link)
Let me put it this way - if your livelihood does not depend on photo taking and you currently use Canon, why would you even consider Nikon (et vice versa)?

Or as Master Yoda may have said, "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny". ;)

TBH it's only those people where the choice is critical to their income that I can understand making some sort of an issue over this but certainly not as big as I keep seeing. It's almost as if it's a religion!

me personally? i switched to Nikon for a few reasons:

1) i don't like Canon as a company (yeah yeah yeah i know what you will all say)
2) Nikon had the body that i have been asking for for quite some time (fast, FF, gripless body that can do everything).
3) Nikon had the 200-400

also, i was very curious about the Nikon in general and got sick and tired of listening to the opinions of people that never used Nikon so i decided to go out and try it for myself.

for me, it is almost like buying a new car. lets say you drive a honda for 3 years and you do like the car and all. however, it is time to look for a new car for whatever reason (high mileage, new tech etc..). you can just go to the honda dealership and buy the same car or you can drive to the Toyota dealership and take on for a test drive.




  
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zaathrus
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Oct 21, 2009 12:56 |  #69

nicksan wrote in post #8866409 (external link)
Actually, to the contrary, if your livelihood depended on it, why would you switch an entire system? That to me is more risky than folks who are doing it b/c they have gear envy/lust.

I look at it from the point of the tool needing to be replaced if it doesn't do the job, not so much the cost of doing so! But then again, I am a firm believer in good research before one buys such expensive tools and once the decision is made to roll with it.

However, for those with gear envy, continually harping on about Noink vs Canon is just (IMO) immature "willy-waving" - they are both v good systems!


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zaathrus
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Oct 21, 2009 13:01 |  #70

blonde wrote in post #8866433 (external link)
me personally? i switched to Nikon for a few reasons:

1) i don't like Canon as a company (yeah yeah yeah i know what you will all say)
2) Nikon had the body that i have been asking for for quite some time (fast, FF, gripless body that can do everything).
3) Nikon had the 200-400

also, i was very curious about the Nikon in general and got sick and tired of listening to the opinions of people that never used Nikon so i decided to go out and try it for myself.

for me, it is almost like buying a new car. lets say you drive a honda for 3 years and you do like the car and all. however, it is time to look for a new car for whatever reason (high mileage, new tech etc..). you can just go to the honda dealership and buy the same car or you can drive to the Toyota dealership and take on for a test drive.

For your 1st point , fair enough, similar to my view of $ony!

As to the rest, your decision appears based on the "best tool for you" which is what I expect to be anyone's main reason. Me, I don't get on with the Nikon ergonomics. I chose Canon!


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Oct 21, 2009 13:02 |  #71
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blonde wrote in post #8866433 (external link)
for me, it is almost like buying a new car. lets say you drive a honda for 3 years and you do like the car and all. however, it is time to look for a new car for whatever reason (high mileage, new tech etc..). you can just go to the honda dealership and buy the same car or you can drive to the Toyota dealership and take on for a test drive.

And who knows, you might prefer the Toyota. You might not, but at least you tried for yourself.

As far as I know, there's no global law that states that you can only shoot one make for your whole life. :)


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zaathrus
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Oct 21, 2009 13:05 |  #72

radiohead wrote in post #8866490 (external link)
And who knows, you might prefer the Toyota. You might not, but at least you tried for yourself.

As far as I know, there's no global law that states that you can only shoot one make for your whole life. :)

That's true, but there's also nothing wrong with not feeling the need to switch brand either! Me, I made a call years ago to go with EOS and see no need to try Nikon. Just like I use Bosch power tools and not JCB - both get the job done, but I'm used to Bosch. Brand loyalty is not necessarily a bad thing, provided it's not blind fanboyism (of course)...


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Oct 21, 2009 13:07 |  #73
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zaathrus wrote in post #8866513 (external link)
That's true, but there's also nothing wrong with not feeling the need to switch brand either! Me, I made a call years ago to go with EOS and see no need to try Nikon. Just like I use Bosch power tools and not JCB - both get the job done, but I'm used to Bosch. Brand loyalty is not necessarily a bad thing, provided it's not blind fanboyism (of course)...

Absolutely - I was just making the point that it's ok to try something else, if only to scratch that itch.


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zaathrus
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Oct 21, 2009 13:11 |  #74

radiohead wrote in post #8866528 (external link)
Absolutely - I was just making the point that it's ok to try something else, if only to scratch that itch.

I don't disagree ;) It's one thing to have light-hearted digs at those that use a different brand, but it dismays me when some take it a little too seriously. 'Sides, we all know that Canon is best (j/k) ;)

Seriously, if it wasn't for the competition, can you imagine what cameras we'd be using right now?!


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Yeoer
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Oct 21, 2009 15:05 |  #75

jacobsen1 wrote in post #8866254 (external link)
people never bitched about FF in the film days. Plus, with the ISOs they're now giving us, a 1.4TC works pretty well and it's 1 stop ISO hit wouldn't even matter.

But its not quite that simple.

Your 400mm f2.8 on the 1D is like a 520mm F2.8 on the D3 (which they don't make and can you imagine the size and weight if the did!... and the cost...!!) with the added bonus of being 16MP to start with and not needing to be cropped nor have a TC to effect the image quailty, mind you the TC wouldn't have as much of an effect on the D3 due to the lower resolution.

So really you could say the D3 needs to be atleast 1 full stop better on noise to achieve the same results as the 1D Mk4 due to the FF sensor when used as intended sport, wildlife etc. FF is great but i really don't see its place for this type of camera when high resoultion crops are available.


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