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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 20 Oct 2009 (Tuesday) 23:13
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1D MK IV vs. D3s - Final Showdown!

 
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CyberDyneSystems
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Oct 21, 2009 16:12 |  #76

radiohead wrote in post #8863903 (external link)
You missed a crucial point for a lot of people - a FF sensor.

FF Vs. APS H continues to define the 1D Vs the 1Ds series.

Canon have had both options available to there shooters since 2002.
It will never be a "plus" to remove these options IMHO.


Nikon will catch up some day. ;)
They did with FF recently.. Good Show Nikon! :)



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Oct 21, 2009 16:19 |  #77
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The FF issue is a comment made by a lot of Canon shooters not wanting to pay 1Ds money for a pro spec FF body.

Nikon won't ever make a 1.3 sensor. No question about it. It's not a case of catching up.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Oct 21, 2009 16:21 |  #78

I can find dozens of threads and statements from Nikon itself from a few years back saying the same about FF,..

Anyway, I don't disagree,. I'm merely pointing out that it's silly to count the fact that canon offers the variety as a "disadvantage" when we ALL KNOW that in due time we will get the exact same features in an FF option as well.
I will continue to consider this a plus.



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Oct 21, 2009 16:23 |  #79

radiohead wrote in post #8867762 (external link)
The FF issue is a comment made by a lot of Canon shooters not wanting to pay 1Ds money for a pro spec FF body.

Nikon won't ever make a 1.3 sensor. No question about it. It's not a case of catching up.

Can I correct you there? The FF "issue" is made into an issue by those wanting a 1Ds but instead of saving up that bit more, feel that it is their "right" to be able to purchase one for the price they deem appropriate.

1D series does not seem to be about compromise so at the present time (with the present tech), it is good that there is 1D and 1Ds.


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foxesamu
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Oct 21, 2009 16:31 |  #80

jwcdds wrote in post #8865315 (external link)
Hm... the 102,400 shots are usable... if you're printing newspaper at 1 inch x 1.5 inch.

the D3S's is usable for small web sizes and maybe newspaper in B&W... the 1D4's isn't, at all.




  
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Oct 21, 2009 16:33 |  #81

foxesamu wrote in post #8867830 (external link)
the D3S's is usable for small web sizes and maybe newspaper in B&W... the 1D4's isn't, at all.

Not sure how you figured that out...From a shot of an old tapestry on the wall?


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Oct 21, 2009 16:36 |  #82

blonde wrote in post #8865826 (external link)
the guys that are talking about "its the system" are often guys that actually tried both for themselves instead of using forum quotes and other's people's opinions. These are the guys that actually put their money were the mouth is and went out and tried the different options and actually learned first hand what the differences are.

as for your bet, i think that i will take you on that one. i will bet that 99% of the people that are in this thread right now talking **** back and forth haven't used a Nikon at all and don't know much about the Nikon system. Go look at the "official release" thread and you will see why you would lose this bet. people that are calling the mkIV the great messiah are asking if the Nikon has features like High Light Tone priority. People that hail the canon never even used a Nikon lens in their life and yet they will harp on the "canon makes better lenses" which is a completey crock of #$%. they make more lenses and they make cheaper lenses. yes they have some better lenses but they also have some worse lenses.

Wow... you hit the nail on the head.




  
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foxesamu
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Oct 21, 2009 16:37 |  #83

thatkatmat wrote in post #8867838 (external link)
Not sure how you figured that out...From a shot of an old tapestry on the wall?

From the samples posted...?

There have been several samples of the D3S at 102K already. It's probably too early to judge the 1D but I can't imagine that these samples aren't realistic.




  
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Oct 21, 2009 16:40 |  #84
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CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #8867774 (external link)
I can find dozens of threads and statements from Nikon itself from a few years back saying the same about FF,..

Anyway, I don't disagree,. I'm merely pointing out that it's silly to count the fact that canon offers the variety as a "disadvantage" when we ALL KNOW that in due time we will get the exact same features in an FF option as well.
I will continue to consider this a plus.

Then we agree to disagree. Us and many others.

zaathrus wrote in post #8867786 (external link)
Can I correct you there? The FF "issue" is made into an issue by those wanting a 1Ds but instead of saving up that bit more, feel that it is their "right" to be able to purchase one for the price they deem appropriate.

1D series does not seem to be about compromise so at the present time (with the present tech), it is good that there is 1D and 1Ds.

I dont agree. I think that Canon could easily do it, easily. They choose not to for commercial reasons. That's fine, but when their main competitor does offer FF options with pro specs some are bound to look and wonder.

It's the same as Nikon users not wanting to pay £4.5k for more resolution, an argument I understand entirely.

These discussions are simply due to the fact that 2 big companies offer followers of the others some things they'd like.


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Oct 21, 2009 16:40 |  #85

The only samples I've seen are of some old asian tapestry....I picture of a picture....really horrible, I agree, but who knows how either will look in the real world


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Okami
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Oct 21, 2009 16:48 as a reply to  @ foxesamu's post |  #86

Other than landscape photographers I don't see what's the big deal with FF or not. Yes I have a 5d II and I think the high iso ability of it is great but I don't put it past any company to be able to match that high iso ability in a smaller sensor. Whether it happens now or in the future there is no reason it can't happen. It boggles my mind that people think that by simple division and judgment of pixel size they can already determine the quality of picture that is brought out by a camera.

Of course if all technology was to never progress and all they were doing is literally squeezing a smaller pixel on the sensor then yes this would be true. But there is a lot more into getting the visual data than just that.

On the issue of the crop. How many of the real buyers of the 1d4 who complain actually use wide angle on a consistent enough basis that this is an issue. I'm guessing not that many at all (and if they do why not the 5d II unless you are taking some kind of action super wide angle shots all the time)

And on suggestions of dynamic crops. Until I see a camera that is able to do a crop mode without dramatically reducing the amount of mp (like the D3) i don't see it being useful.

In the end I think the canon vs nikon discussions are getting more and more useless. Both of the companies have cameras are the 5k price point that pretty much could do everything a photographer would ever need in a camera. It's getting to the point I don't even see too much more room that either of them could improve.




  
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Oct 21, 2009 16:52 |  #87

radiohead wrote in post #8867762 (external link)
The FF issue is a comment made by a lot of Canon shooters not wanting to pay 1Ds money for a pro spec FF body.

Nikon won't ever make a 1.3 sensor. No question about it. It's not a case of catching up.

No its not like there top high speed sports camera is lower in MP or Full HD video or anything is it..! :o

Come on we are going to be compairing a 12MP D3s FF sensor to what equates to what would be a 26MP sensor if it was FF in the 1D MK4... if the noise is simular then what does that say...


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Oct 21, 2009 17:02 |  #88

thatkatmat wrote in post #8867879 (external link)
The only samples I've seen are of some old asian tapestry....I picture of a picture....really horrible, I agree, but who knows how either will look in the real world

Try this link. You may be more impressed, http://dpinterface.com …-mark-iv-preview-gallery/ (external link)


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mattograph
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Oct 21, 2009 20:44 |  #89

foxesamu wrote in post #8867858 (external link)
From the samples posted...?

There have been several samples of the D3S at 102K already. It's probably too early to judge the 1D but I can't imagine that these samples aren't realistic.

Wow. Really? That confident in what you read?

You know the whole balloon boy thing was a hoax, right?


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Oct 21, 2009 20:52 |  #90

Some better ISO102400 samples from the 1D IV (still unusable), as well as other ISO samples:

http://dpinterface.com …-mark-iv-preview-gallery/ (external link)

Compare semi-directly with the D3s:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D3S​/D3SA7.HTM (external link)


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