Help!! Worse-case scenario...

katodog wrote in post #8915104
Not to be a smartass, but even Jesus Himself couldn't photograph in there without setting up lighting, and He wouldn't be able to set up lighting. I think this might be one of those rare times when I should just shoot Auto and forget that I know anything about photography.

shoot RAW. you mention that it doesn't work, but it will give you more latitude to work with. underexpose if you have to, but make sure you have an acceptable shutter speed. then, pull up in post. it'll be noisier, but at least you'll get sharp pictures out of it.

I sometimes shoot in some pretty miserable settings. I +1 the opinions expressed earlier about doing what you can to eliminate blur. I much prefer a high ISO noisier picture without blur than a less noisy but blurry picture. And try your flash at a higher ISO - you'll be amazed how powerful your flash becomes then!

Use *way* higher ISO. Nothing is worse than this kind of movement. If ISO 3200 is necessary, use it. Both with your 20D and your 40D.

Use on longest 1/80 for walk, on longest 1/200 but better 1/320 or shorter for trot and canter.

Custom white balance is best, but not really great when light from outside falls in (through the door). So try to avoid that door when decently white balanced. Shoot RAW to be able to correct WB afterwards.

If you have enough light available to use a smaller aperture or lower your ISO, *first* use a smaller aperture. Lack of DOF is the most-seen mistake IMO.


Oh, and try to take photos at lighter days and avoid rainy/cloudy days and evenings, that really helps a lot!

Thanks everyone. Got a lot to work on I guess.

I can't really pick the time of day to shoot, she has a lesson the same time of day, 4:30 p.m.. I'm at the mercy of the winter season and the fact that it's gonna be getting darker earlier. Light is going to be what it is, and I have to find the best way to work around it.

I'll shoot ISO1600 or high ISO with the 40D, and try the flash again. And I will, reluctantly, shoot RAW. Can't hurt I guess. Problem is the next lesson is in two weeks, so you guys will have to wait for the results.

katodog wrote in post #8923198
Thanks everyone. Got a lot to work on I guess.

I can't really pick the time of day to shoot, she has a lesson the same time of day, 4:30 p.m.. I'm at the mercy of the winter season and the fact that it's gonna be getting darker earlier. Light is going to be what it is, and I have to find the best way to work around it.

Yeah okay but even in wintertime you've got dark days and light days. And it really makes a great difference, trust me on that. So if it's dark and grey maybe just leave your camera at home and see what's the weather like the week after.

katodog wrote in post #8923198
Thanks everyone. Got a lot to work on I guess.

I can't really pick the time of day to shoot, she has a lesson the same time of day, 4:30 p.m.. I'm at the mercy of the winter season and the fact that it's gonna be getting darker earlier. Light is going to be what it is, and I have to find the best way to work around it.

I'll shoot ISO1600 or high ISO with the 40D, and try the flash again. And I will, reluctantly, shoot RAW. Can't hurt I guess. Problem is the next lesson is in two weeks, so you guys will have to wait for the results.

Why reluctantly? If you shoot RAW you can underexpose by up to 2 stops and still manage to recover the details. Yes you might have noise on the photo but that can be dealt with by Noise ninja/Noiseware etc.

You state earlier in your post that RAW doesnt give more latitude than Jpeg - that statement is just plain WRONG. If thats your findings then you are doing womething wrong because everyone esle that i know that uses RAW can get more latitude out of it! It will also allow you to get a "decent" WB - it might not be perfect but you could get a lot better than that green look! And that is without degrading the image quality (unlike using Jpeg).

What have you used to process RAWs in the past? DPP/ ACR or something else? DPP and ACR will both give very good results if used properly.

Main thing though would be shoot at whatever ISO gives you a useable shutter speed. Noise can be dealt with (removed or minimised) but motion blur is impossible to remove.

You have your image editing allowed, and this is a brief excursion into PS

I would echo what lots of folks are saying here. People do shoot in arenas all the time, and while you're not going to get the quality you get outdoors in the spring, you can at least get some keepers.

1. Shoot Manual. I can't stress this enough. I shot for a while in AV, and it's just wrong. If the horse passes in front of a white fence, he gets darker. If he passes in front of a dark area, he gets blurry. Bad news.
2. Set custom white balance - it's not rocket science, just shoot a pic of a white piece of paper under the light.
3. Use all your ISO - you're trading off speckles against shots that are blurry - that's the wrong decision.
4. You've got a huge advantage over a lot of us that aren't allowed flash!

Dave

tracknut, trust me on this... You don't even want to use flash in this case.

- Flash is only helpful when used to create *better* lighting instead of *more* lighting.
- Horses might not like the flashes.
- HUGE difference between white balance under this kind of lighting conditions and color temperature of the flash. So the only case in which flash would help without ruining colors, is by using the right color filter.

Nouks wrote in post #8924246
tracknut, trust me on this... You don't even want to use flash in this case.

Thanks for the info. I can't use flashes, but he said he's done it successfully with horses so I thought it might be a good plan. Sounds like not...

Dave

katodog wrote in post #8923198
I'll shoot ISO1600 or high ISO with the 40D, and try the flash again.

The shutter speeds you were at were hopeless. You can get a correct exposure in this arena at ISO3200, f/1.8 and 1/100. If you insist on shooting ambient then that is what I would do.

If you want to try blended with flash, go ISO3200, f/1.8 and 1/200 though this will require gelling the flash.

Or kill the ambient altogether and shoot ISO1600, f/2.2 and 1/200. It looks to me like the walls are white. Have you tried bouncing off the walls?

I cannot understand the aversion to RAW given the unholy WB issues in the posted shots. The number one best reason to shoot in RAW is that it allows limitless color tweaking in post processing. Once that awful color is compressed in a JPEG you will typically find it impossible to get all the tones to look correct.

Shoot RAW and fix your color problem.

The OP has received a lot of good suggestions, now i would like see new shoot.

1) In general, never do blur shoot, because these type of shoot are irrecuperable (so put attention to have a sufficient shutter speed).
2) Always raw especially when there are possible problem with white balance.
3) A good crop don't hurt, so when is necessary, do some crop.
4) If you could use some ligth, use it, unfortunately the camera haven't the same capacity of the human eyes so you should help the camera in some manner ...

Thanks everyone. I have to wait until the next shoot to see what happens.

I can use a flash, in fact, I can set up two flash units with my triggers if need be. I might do that and bounce them off the walls. I'd figure they would give good coverage at least to a certain distance. To be honest, I never thought of bouncing the walls. That's why I asked here, because I knew sooner or later somebody would come up with ideas that I was either forgetting about or didn't know about. If I had my head out of my butt when I was shooting I would have tried the walls, but the thought never crossed my mind. I got to the point where I was defeating myself before even pressing the shutter. I don't think the horses pay much attention to the flash, I've used direct flash right at them and they don't seem to flinch. I always ask beforehand if i can use a flash, just in case the trainers decide not to let me.

I am going to shoot higher ISO and RAW, and will probably bring some gels with to test. I think I have to give up on distance shots though, which is gonna suck because a lot of the time she's in the back where I can't get to. I might ask them if I can get inside the arena and shoot from the middle somewhere, maybe the light is better inside instead of shooting from the side.

About a week and a half, next lesson is on the 4th.

Okay guys, I'm shooting another riding lesson today, so I'll post back later with the results. I'm writing down the suggestions so I don't forget to try anything.

As long as they let me, and the horses aren't bothered, I'm going to use a flash. If I thought it wouldn't be totally obnoxious of me, I'd set up two units with triggers. But, I think that might be stretching the good will of the trainers, and the patience of the horses.

Oops, I goofed. It sucks getting old. The lesson is on the 11th, so you guys have to wait another week.