Help!! Worse-case scenario...

katodog wrote in post #8914242
White balance, what is white balance? As soon as you even think about shooting in this arena, the white balance settings on your camera go to Tahiti. This place makes white balance look like rocket science, and I'm not a rocket scientist.

I'm suprised no-one has mentioned the type of lighting yet.

Cycling lighting (such as fluros) can cause all sorts of WB issues, if your shutters speeds aren't synced with the cycle time of the AC supply.

In Australia, our supply is 50Hz...I think the US is 60???

Have a read of this thread https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=598824

katodog wrote in post #8954264
As long as they let me, and the horses aren't bothered, I'm going to use a flash. If I thought it wouldn't be totally obnoxious of me, I'd set up two units with triggers. But, I think that might be stretching the good will of the trainers, and the patience of the horses.

I'm really surprised you're going to use flash when some people tell you it will bother both the horses and the instructor AND you think white balancing is rocket science... Adding another kind of light (flash) with another color temperature will make white balancing even more difficult.

Well, good luck.

I have not read through the entire thread but the first thing that comes to mind is shooting at higher ISOs - you need a camera that can handle ISO3200. There are a number options - the 5Dc, the 5DII and the 7D. You might also want to look into the 85 f/1.8 to give you a little more reach. Besides that, there is no magic - you'll have to invest money if you really want to solve this problem.

Nouks wrote in post #8958322
I'm really surprised you're going to use flash when some people tell you it will bother both the horses and the instructor

It's my understanding that the staff at the facility told him flash is fine, it's only random strangers on the internet here that are saying flash cannot be used. In a dispute between on-site authority and random strangers on the internet I tend to listen to the on-site authority.

If that is wrong, then one can solicit legal advice on the internet next.

Kick the shutter speed to the synch speed of the camera in this facility and there will be only one light color in the photo.

JeffreyG wrote in post #8958372
It's my understanding that the staff at the facility told him flash is fine, it's only random strangers on the internet here that are saying flash cannot be used. In a dispute between on-site authority and random strangers on the internet I tend to listen to the on-site authority.

If that is wrong, then one can solicit legal advice on the internet next.

Okay sure, If they say it's okay it probably is, but it WILL bother the instruction, especially when using two flash units (Katodog, did you already remember having to change the places of the flashes like *all* the time? How are you going to do that with moving subjects all around and not standing still waiting on the right spot until you took the picture?).

Maybe the instructor didn't want to be rude.
And besides that, most probably the instructor was thinking of one flash on camera, as that's what most people think of when thinking about flashlights. Instructor might be pretty surprised about katodog's two flash units.

Well, I wish him luck. I can tell you; the flash and available light (both in the hall and outside) WON'T match eachother. Katadog is making it even more difficult for himself by adding a third lightsource.

Katodog, PLEASE first understand white balancing and try high ISO before making it more difficult than necessary.

Nouks wrote in post #8958613
Maybe the instructor didn't want to be rude.
And besides that, most probably the instructor was thinking of one flash on camera, as that's what most people think of when thinking about flashlights. Instructor might be pretty surprised about katodog's two flash units.

seems like he doesn't really plan on using 2 units...so your rant is pretty unnecessary

katodog wrote in post #8954264
If I thought it wouldn't be totally obnoxious of me, I'd set up two units with triggers. But, I think that might be stretching the good will of the trainers, and the patience of the horses.

DreDaze wrote in post #8959266
seems like he doesn't really plan on using 2 units...so your rant is pretty unnecessary

Okay, I missed that one.

Still thought this was the plan:

katodog wrote in post #8929108
I can use a flash, in fact, I can set up two flash units with my triggers if need be. I might do that and bounce them off the walls. I'd figure they would give good coverage at least to a certain distance. To be honest, I never thought of bouncing the walls.

Besides that, you could be a bit nicer to me. It's all heartfelt advice and I actually think I might be one of few people here who actually has experience with photographing horses in this kind of conditions.

Nouks wrote in post #8959513
Besides that, you could be a bit nicer to me.

my bad...didn't want to come off mean...

i think short posts without smiley faces tend to do that online sometimes though...

Nouks wrote in post #8958613
the flash and available light (both in the hall and outside) WON'T match eachother. Katadog is making it even more difficult for himself by adding a third lightsource.

My estimation is that by going to the synch speed of the camera the exposure will be very close to correct for the outside light and more than 2 stops underexposed for the inside lights.

That means from the standpoint of the photo the indoor lights do not exist and so the chore of trying to deal with their color cast is gone.

And I'll remind you that Canon Speedlights have color temperature close to sunlight. So the flash and the outdoor lights seen through the windows will match.

In short - use of flash is actually the only way to make for a simple color balance.

What would you guys pick, and why?

85mm f/1.8

85mm f/1.2 L

135mm f/2 L

I'd set up my Aliens Bees. If I didn't own any, I'd buy some.

Even f/1.2 isn't going to do much for you here. Judging by your EXIF, f/1.2 only gets you to ISO 3200 and 1/200s. Then you still have the puke green/yellow color cast to deal with.

Simple answer (and completely in jest before anyone throws something in my direction) - hire some floodlights on stands to improve the lighting level!

Nouks - dont take other peoples posts as a put down of your suggestions. Other people, while they might not have exactly your experience in shooting horses (that didnt sound right did it), have knowledge and experience in other areas and can bring that to bear here.

DDCSD wrote in post #8963558
Then you still have the puke green/yellow color cast to deal with.

But that's just some easy white balancing which katodog has to understand.

Nouks wrote in post #8965667
But that's just some easy white balancing which katodog has to understand.

No it isn't. With the type of lights that are in that arena, you will often get one light putting out one color temp and another light giving out a completely different color temp as the lights cycle. You don't see it in these shots (because of the very low shutter speeds), but once they get the shutter speed up, it will become very bad.

There's no easy fix to this. In order to even make the WB look decent, you need to convert 2-3 raw files using different white balances and blend the exposures. It'll still look like crap though and takes a very long time to do to even one image, not to mention doing it for multiple photos.


But, that is a secondary issue. 85mm, ISO3200, 1/200s at f/1.2 isn't going to get you many keepers anyways.

Wow, well, I'm impressed. I shot ISO3200 and am actually pretty damn impressed with the results. The noise isn't even half as bad as I thought it would be. It even looks like the color was cleaned up a bit. I shot with my 28-300mm L and the results with ISO3200 are far, far different from what I've gotten before...

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