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Thread started 30 Oct 2009 (Friday) 12:59
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How do you shoot (piano keys) in two different methods(close up focus,...)

 
legacymobilestudio
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Oct 30, 2009 12:59 |  #1

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(resized for website but NO crop- this is 100)
I can make any Keys I want clear, either at front or back- BUT how can I set it so that the WHOLE keys are in clear?
handheld(bad idea but it was on spur of moment)
1/80(no flash)
fstop was 4
70mm focal l.
I tried increasing the F/stop to "take in the rest of the keys"- but if I increased the fstop to max, it would take 20 seconds(handholding is out of the question)

How would you approach this? Thanks for enlightening me.

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FlyingPhotog
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Oct 30, 2009 13:01 |  #2

This is why people own tripods...


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Oct 30, 2009 13:04 |  #3

To be honest, you can only do one or the other with this light, either a wide aperture to handhold or a narrow aperture + tripod to get the whole keyboard in focus. You could max out your iso to get your shutter speed down but I doubt it would come down enough to hand hold still.

As Jay said, a tripod & shutter release cable is the way forwards here.


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Mark_Cohran
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Oct 30, 2009 13:07 |  #4

You have a simple Depth of Field (DOF )problem. In order to get the maximum number of keys in focus, you need to increase your DOF. To increase DOF you need to use a smaller aperture or increase your camera to subject distance, or both. Obviously, your composition requires a short camera to subject distance, so your best option is to use a smaller aperture. As you noted, however, that results in a longer exposure time for the given ISO. So here are your options:

1. Increase the ISO setting - the drawback to this is more noise in your image. Also, it may not be possible to increase the ISO to a point where you can still get sufficient DOF.
2. Use a tripod and a release - this is probably the best solution if you want to maintain a sharp, low noise image.
3. Add light - use an off camera flash or add more natural light to the scene to allow you to properly expose the image using a smaller aperture.

Realistically, I'd probably use a combination of the three options to optimize the image.


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legacymobilestudio
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Oct 30, 2009 13:10 |  #5

Very true. Put it on a tripod-

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legacymobilestudio
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Oct 30, 2009 13:11 |  #6

Thanks everyone for reinforcing- this is awesome.


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EdBray
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Oct 30, 2009 13:15 |  #7

Whilst the depth of field is an issue, you don't need a tripod or a flashgun to do this or even to raise the ISO to a high level.

Rest the camera on the piano (either on the bass keys or on the edge of the piano).

Focus just over 1/3 of the way up the keyboard.

Set the aperture to the maximum at the very least f16.

Set the camera's drive to self timer, (I would use the 10 sec mode to give the camera time to settle after pressing the shutter button).

Press the shutter and wait for it to close before touching the camera again!

Jobs a good un!


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legacymobilestudio
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Oct 30, 2009 13:17 |  #8

EdBray wrote in post #8924977 (external link)
Whilst the depth of field is an issue, you don't need a tripod or a flashgun to do this or even to raise the ISO to a high level.

Rest the camera on the piano (either on the bass keys or on the edge of the piano).

Focus just over 1/3 of the way up the keyboard.

Set the aperture to the maximum at the very least f16.

Set the camera's drive to self timer, (I would use the 10 sec mode to give the camera time to settle after pressing the shutter button).

Press the shutter and wait for it to close before touching the camera again!

Jobs a good un!

I'll have to remember to USE the self timer feature as well as setting it down, etc- I always seem to forget that. :)


Canon Xti, 30D + battery grip, T2i GRIPPED, 28mm 2.8, 18-55mm kit, 10-22mm, 28-135mm IS, 24-70mm 2.8 L, 55-250mm IS, 70-200 2.8 L IS, Sigma 150-500mm apo, and two backpacks.

  
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gjl711
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Oct 30, 2009 13:21 |  #9

There is another way to get much greater DOF but it requires a bit of post processing and quite a few images.

1. Mount the on a tripod and focus on the nearest key. Take a pic and note the settings.
2. Set the camera in manual mode to the setting of the first pic.
3. Focus on the next key (or maybe 2 down depending on you DOF) and take another pic
4. Do this until you get to the last key you want in perfect crystal clear focus.
5. Download and install a focus stacking program such as CombineZP
http://www.hadleyweb.p​wp.blueyonder.co.uk/CZ​P/News.htm (external link)
6. Follow the simple steps to get a wonderfully set of stacked images stacked into one picture. It's mostly used for macros, but no reason it cant be used for this as well.


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scot079
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Oct 30, 2009 15:56 |  #10

^^ I was going to mention "focus stacking" as well. If you have a mac then CombineZM won't work for you, try Helicon focus.

However, my stacking method of choice utilizes the healing brush in Photoshop. You can set the brush's source on one photo and paint in the in-focus areas to another photo. Obviously takes more time but it's 100% user controlled vs letting software do the aligning and/or stacking.


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rdenney
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Oct 30, 2009 16:33 as a reply to  @ scot079's post |  #11

This is easy for a large-format photographer with a view camera.

To do it using a Canon, you need a lens that tilts. With tilt, you adjust the focus plane to run along the keys no matter what aperture you used. About 2000 times easier than focus stacking, and better than stopping down with its attendant diffraction effects, and still insufficient depth of field.

There are several ways, ranging from pretty inexpensive to really expensive, to achieve the tilt capability on your Canon.

The cheapest is to get a tilting adapter on ebay for the Pentacon Six lens mount. Then, put a Pentacon Six-mount lens on the adapter. An 80mm Zeiss Jena Biometar will be cheap and good in this application. It's a normal lens for the 6x6 format, so it has plenty of coverage for tilts on a Canon.

The most expensive is to get one of Canon's TS-E lenses.

Here's an article that includes a discussion of using tilts on a Canon:

http://www.rickdenney.​com/tilt_shift.htm (external link)

Skip down to Section 3 Adjusting the Focus Plane.

Rick "who will post some examples of a keyboard if time permits this weekend" Denney


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FlyingPhotog
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Oct 30, 2009 17:21 |  #12

I Love POTN...

Ask "What Time Is It?" and someone will tell you how to build a watch! :lol:


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legacymobilestudio
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Oct 30, 2009 19:09 |  #13

:D Can I ask how to buy more lenses without getting poor or in trouble with my wife? Now watch the suggestions come in. (I'm kidding) That's another thread topic there. ;)


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Mark_Cohran
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Oct 30, 2009 20:31 |  #14

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #8926363 (external link)
I Love POTN...

Ask "What Time Is It?" and someone will tell you how to build a watch! :lol:

You're absolutely right there. :)


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FlyingPhotog
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Oct 30, 2009 23:02 |  #15

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #8927235 (external link)
You're absolutely right there. :)

Um Mark, that's a seriously disturbing Avatar there... :shock:


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How do you shoot (piano keys) in two different methods(close up focus,...)
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