finding enough time to do church formals the right way

Do a lot of you find that brides and grooms are antsy at formals and do not want to wait for you to put up a few lights and umbrellas? It seems I have been running into the impatient bride more often lately. It seems they think that everything is point and shoot and we're done. Sometimes this disconnect is very frustrating. I was wondering how you all handle these folks while you are setting up your lighting and shot. How do you manage the situation/client?

That's why you set it up before and tuck them in a corner somewhere, when it's time to roll, bring it out and start shooting.

I use an assistant who's hand-holding a 580 w/shoot-through umbrella mounted to a handle. Or sometimes no umbrella, he's holding the 580 as a main off at 45 degrees while there's an on-camera 580 for fill. I like to shoot this with all manual settings so it just takes a moment for metering, but no time for set up. I'm all about doing church portraits quickly so I can save time to do some much nicer work outside.

Could you post a couple of church formal pictures using this setup, this is the direction i want to go in and would love to see what to expect.

Thanks

Peacefield wrote in post #8953900
I use an assistant who's hand-holding a 580 w/shoot-through umbrella mounted to a handle. Or sometimes no umbrella, he's holding the 580 as a main off at 45 degrees while there's an on-camera 580 for fill. I like to shoot this with all manual settings so it just takes a moment for metering, but no time for set up. I'm all about doing church portraits quickly so I can save time to do some much nicer work outside.

OCF and Pocket wizards are really an easy way to go. I agree that people think that your fancy camera does all the work. I have enough strobes to set up two or three rooms in advance and use a different channel for each room.

SF

I second shoot weddings for a good friend. Our last wedding was our first time with OCF. Right after the recessional, my friend went to cover the receiving line, and I quickly setup the light stand/umbrella and got everything ready for formals. I can't imagine doing this without an assisant.

hbomb69 wrote in post #8961767
Could you post a couple of church formal pictures using this setup, this is the direction i want to go in and would love to see what to expect.

Thanks

Not a great photo, but I happen to know where it is. 100+ degrees inside the very dark church and everyone wanted to run out of there so this was put together in a hurry. This was also my first attempt at using multiple 580's during a wedding.

Nonetheless, it will give you some quick idea of how it worked out. This was done as I described above, but using ETTL and infared at a 3-1 ratio. This image is a little hot, a 2-1 ratio might have been more pleasing, and I could've used a third flash behind the group to minimize shadows on the wall. The light is very spectral, of course, and it wiped out the dress, but excepting the occassional shadow, everyone is well and evenly lit.

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Thankfully I don't do many church weddings; most of my shoots are at other venues or after the ceremony. However, I prioritize trying to get the best possible light; it is actually not that slow by my standards because rounding people up can easily take much longer than preparing the lighting.

The last church wedding I did required my alienbees strobe and all of my off-camera flashes to be bouncing against the ceiling (about 50 feet above and dark brown wood) or otherwise projecting light onto the subjects from the second floor. They were the best "church formals" I've ever done. It was also setup before the ceremony, so there was no need to move anything around for the formals.

Was that direct flash? Or through an umbrella?

Peacefield wrote in post #8967962
Not a great photo, but I happen to know where it is. 100+ degrees inside the very dark church and everyone wanted to run out of there so this was put together in a hurry. This was also my first attempt at using multiple 580's during a wedding.

Nonetheless, it will give you some quick idea of how it worked out. This was done as I described above, but using ETTL and infared at a 3-1 ratio. This image is a little hot, a 2-1 ratio might have been more pleasing, and I could've used a third flash behind the group to minimize shadows on the wall. The light is very spectral, of course, and it wiped out the dress, but excepting the occassional shadow, everyone is well and evenly lit.

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Two 580's, both direct.

Had I used an umbrella, the shadows on the wall and back-row bodies would not have been as apparent as they are. I do keep a 22" shoot through in my bag and use it often, but when working with infa-red ETTL as I was, I find the exposure balance across flashes gets a little confused if I modify one flash and not the other. So I'll use an umbrella on a single OCF fired via infa-red with the main flash disabled, but I will not use an umbrella on one while the other is direct.

^ For formals, I'd give up on E-TTL. I did one wedding shoot with a "Cactus-triggered" 580EXII into an umbrella, and it was REALLY easy dealing with manual flash. I had the flash at 1/2 power, and I took a quick test shot, chimped the histogram, and adjusted the ISO/aperture until it looked good.

A light meter would have been nice, but with digital it's not needed as much as with film (I'd make a horrible film photographer )

General Suggestions
1) Set and manage expectations. Discuss with the bride before the day of the wedding what she wants out of the family formals. Give her an idea of what to expect the day of. If she knows ahead of time that you have to put up a few lights, then it will be no big deal.

2) Bring/hire an assistant to set up the lighting while you organize the groupings.

3) Better yet, set up your lighting and store it in a back room. Then when it's time for the formals, simply bring them out and plug them in (if need be). Again, an assistant here is extremely useful for making this process as quick as possible.

4) Do a quick check of the location to make sure you have access to a power outlet, if you need it. It's very cumbersome (and not as professional IMO) if you need to drag out a bunch of extension cords to plug in your lights. We eliminated this problem altogether with a portable power source, the Vagabond II. Alternatively you can just use a couple Speedlights fired into umbrellas.

5) Use a radio trigger to fire the flashes. They are dependable and wireless. Keyword=wireless. The less wires and clutter the better. Not only does it look better, but it also reduces the number of cables for someone to trip over.

Our Setup
We use a pair of AlienBee 800's with umbrellas and Cybersyncs for radio triggers. I do make sure to put a receiver on each of the AB800's. You really only need one since when the first light fires it will trigger the other AB800. However, we don't want the lights going off any more than they have to. It can get very annoying to the B&G and family because people will take random shots whenever they feel like it, and if someone is looking right at the flash then it blinds them. (Even if we ask them to not take flash photography)

To that point, we do announce at the beginning that we need everyone to hold off on any flash photography while we do the formals. This keeps everyone looking/smiling/paying attention to us. I have no problem with family members grabbing a quick shot of the setup, just as long as it doesn't interfere with making this entire process as quick and painless as possible.

If you prepare and can move people in and out quickly, this process should only be 15-20 minutes.

The typical setup is to have one light on either side of the camera, anywhere from 30-45 degrees. One light is the key and the other is fill, although there is little difference between the output power. Usually one is 1/2 power and the other is 1/8 or 1/4 power. This makes it quick and easy, and almost failsafe whether it's a large or small group. Umbrellas are important as it softens the light and feathers any shadows. And a calibration target is also important as then there is no color correction needed in post.

I've seen some pretty complex formals using backlight and hairlight, but in the end, the only people that ever buy these shots are the family, and they are typically the traditional sizes of 8x10, 5x7, or 4x6. So we stick with simple.

Takeaway
Based on my experience, I have found the family formals (FF) to be an extremely important part of the day -- regardless of the pictures that come out of it.

Often times this may be the only time you interact with some of the extended family members. And the FF time is something that people remember and talk about. So if it's a positive experience, then that often translates into positive word of mouth for you.

Seems like everyone has a tale of a negative FF experience and many times people dread the FF pictures. They view it as a 1-2 hour nightmare. Exceeding their expectations by making it quick and easy provides such a stark contrast to any negative experience they had that they it puts them in a better mood for the rest of the day. Then they are more friendly and relaxed around you, and realize you aren't anything like "that guy" or "that lady" who they had a negative experience with.

And guess what comes out of that? Happy guests and family members. Referrals. More sales. Compliments to the B&G that reaffirm their good decision to go with you.

My point is simply that the FF can be something that sets the tone for the rest of the day, so make sure to come prepared and ready to exceed expectations. There are benefits beyond just focusing on capturing a good picture. Make it a positive experience!

Wow, those were some great tips and something I will keep in mind for sure!

I don't use strobes or umbrellas doing in church formals.

Tabby wrote in post #8952794
Do a lot of you find that brides and grooms are antsy at formals and do not want to wait for you to put up a few lights and umbrellas? It seems I have been running into the impatient bride more often lately. It seems they think that everything is point and shoot and we're done.

The bride/groom are most likely wanting to mingle with family and friends who have traveled to see them, and generally enjoy the day they've spent a small fortune on.

To be brutally honest, if my wedding day was being held up while the photographer was mucking around with off-camera lighting, I'd be getting 'antsy' too.

Tabby wrote in post #8952794
Sometimes this disconnect is very frustrating.

I think you have answered your own question. You have a disconnect, but not because the B&G don't appreciate photography. There is a variance in the expectations of what you're going to deliver and how you're going to deliver it.

This is excellent advice;

caught14 wrote in post #8983053
Set and manage expectations.

caught14 wrote in post #8983053
the FF can be something that sets the tone for the rest of the day, so make sure to come prepared and ready to exceed expectations.