Hopelessly lost and increasingly frustrated....

Simple , Take a photography course or two. Weather it be at your local photography shop or your local Comunity college. You will be amazed what you learn and how far your skills improve in a very short amount of time.

tkbslc wrote in post #8967667
I was pretty happy with P mode for the first 6 months.

so was I, but for much longer, my problem was I never paid attention to the green numbers at the bottom of the view finder or had a desire to learn what they meant until I found this forum. After I learned what they meant, I ran in to another problem. I was not sure how they are changed, but fortunately it was all explained in the camera manual , unfortunately not as easy as everything is explained here.

First of all understand this...Exposure Determination (metering) is a separate action from making the settings (Exposure Control)!

Conceptually, metering in Manual is identical to metering in Av or Tv or P! The ONLY thing that the camera does in M is force you to set both f/stop AND shutter speed, whereas Av or Tv forces you to set ONE and the camera sets the other, and P forces you to set neither. In other words, if you hold the camera up to the scene in Av or Tv mode, and you then make a mental note of the f/stop and shutter speed shown in the viewfinder, and then set both parameters on the camera in M, the resulting photo would be IDENTICAL to using Av or Tv mode!!!

Thank you all so much for your input. the local community college isn't offering a digital class this semester, and I can't afford or have the time to take one right now. that's why I am trying to suck all the information I can from you all.

I forgot my smiley! this forum is at my fingertips whenever I want, or sometimes whenever I have time which is a huge benefit right now. in addition to wanting to learn how to take better pictures I am currently a videographer for my husbands second business, and that takes up a lot of time, downloading video, editing as I go (so I don't have a marathon editing like last season)

Sorry, didn't mean to get on my soap box there. I guess I'm feeling a bit stressed out.....

seriously thank you all for your input, I'm looking forward to taking some shots this weekend and try the advise I received!!!

One of the "ah ha" things to realize is how much the in-camera meter FALSELY changes. That meter changes all the time in the same lighting conditions just because what's in the camera frame changes in color. DO NOT think that in order to use M mode that you'll need to be able to make adjustments as frequently and quickly as you see the camera's meter changing. The exposure settings do NOT change that quickly, the in-camera meter is lying to you.

While you're learning more about exposure, play with P/Av/Tv mode and note what settings the camera selects. Switch to M and dial in those settings and you should be somewhat close. Adjust from there and see the differences.

spkerer wrote in post #8969978
One of the "ah ha" things to realize is how much the in-camera meter FALSELY changes. That meter changes all the time in the same lighting conditions just because what's in the camera frame changes in color. DO NOT think that in order to use M mode that you'll need to be able to make adjustments as frequently and quickly as you see the camera's meter changing. The exposure settings do NOT change that quickly, the in-camera meter is lying to you.

While you're learning more about exposure, play with P/Av/Tv mode and note what settings the camera selects. Switch to M and dial in those settings and you should be somewhat close. Adjust from there and see the differences.

^^^

Your in-camera meter is often being fooled -- it is therefore telling you a falsehood!. This happens when the scene does not average to 18% gray... such as
...the fabled black cat in a coal mine,
...the fabled bride in white gown on the beach, or even
....as the mix of black soccer jerseys vs. white soccer jerseys changes as players run in and out of your viewfinder.

In the last situation, the lighting does not change, only the subject brightness is changing. The correct exposure should NOT change in this situation, yet the in-camera meter makes you think it should be changing constantly in this situation!

Thank you! I had an ah-ha or TA DAA! moment tonight. I think I might have this dialed in on the av/tv/p modes. I'll learn what I can from then to make my choices on M based on that, in time....
thanks again everyone.

Why shoot manual? Doesn't mean you don't know anything. I've been a photgrapher since the 70's and back in my film days I was all manual and you really needed to know lighting situations vs action. Back then ASA was a big deal in how film grain played apart of the final image. Fast forward to present day with digal.. The Digital camera was developed to take away all the guess work. In my eyes it's way to important to cature the moment then to worry or even think about what iso, f-stop, shutter speed to set.. Today being able to shoot raw (dng) images is amazing. I shoot all over the spectrum, P, AV, TV, M, etc... Mostly my last few times I've been in AV or P mode. I shoot 100% raw and process in lightroom and photoshop. So manual is not the professional setting.... A professional setting is what you like and get great results from. It's all about learning your camera and being able to be in a situation and decideding whats best and all in a split second.

Try P mode until you get used to your camera and learn what it can do. Don't get hugn up on M mode. The 40d is a great camera, I had one and can do so much. I have cheat sheets but never looked at them. The 40d was my first real dsl digital coming from film cameras. Now I shoot solely with D series and all L lenses. Good Luck and keep shooting.

GrizzlyMan wrote in post #8976282
Why shoot manual? Doesn't mean you don't know anything. I've been a photgrapher since the 70's and back in my film days I was all manual and you really needed to know lighting situations vs action. Back then ASA was a big deal in how film grain played apart of the final image. Fast forward to present day with digal.. The Digital camera was developed to take away all the guess work. In my eyes it's way to important to cature the moment then to worry or even think about what iso, f-stop, shutter speed to set.. Today being able to shoot raw (dng) images is amazing. I shoot all over the spectrum, P, AV, TV, M, etc... Mostly my last few times I've been in AV or P mode. I shoot 100% raw and process in lightroom and photoshop. So manual is not the professional setting.... A professional setting is what you like and get great results from. It's all about learning your camera and being able to be in a situation and decideding whats best and all in a split second.

Try P mode until you get used to your camera and learn what it can do. Don't get hugn up on M mode. The 40d is a great camera, I had one and can do so much. I have cheat sheets but never looked at them. The 40d was my first real dsl digital coming from film cameras. Now I shoot solely with D series and all L lenses. Good Luck and keep shooting.

very nice, practical advice...

GrizzlyMan wrote in post #8976282
Why shoot manual? Doesn't mean you don't know anything. A professional setting is what you like and get great results from. It's all about learning your camera and being able to be in a situation and decideding whats best and all in a split second.

I certainly would not shoot manual mode just to feel more professional.

The 'ah-ha' moment for me that made me stop using the auto-metered modes came when I was post processing a large number of shots from an event that I had shot in Av mode. I was tweaking the exposure of each shot +/- 1/3 to 2/3 stops to get the lighting to look just right.

I worked along steadily and then it dawned on me....The tweak in each case was precisely undoing a shutter speed change that the camera had made. I realized that if I had shot the event in M mode I would not need to have tweaked them at all.

I went back and looked through a lot of stuff I had shot, and the truth was obvious. In most situations the actual light in a scene is going to be constant. If you take a few seconds to meter the scene by whatever process you like, and then dial it in in M mode you will not need to touch the exposure again as you shoot. Even better, you will not need to tweak the shots as much in post processing.

The revelation is that M mode is a time saver.

JeffreyG wrote in post #8977528
I certainly would not shoot manual mode just to feel more professional.

The 'ah-ha' moment for me that made me stop using the auto-metered modes came when I was post processing a large number of shots from an event that I had shot in Av mode. I was tweaking the exposure of each shot +/- 1/3 to 2/3 stops to get the lighting to look just right.

I worked along steadily and then it dawned on me....The tweak in each case was precisely undoing a shutter speed change that the camera had made. I realized that if I had shot the event in M mode I would not need to have tweaked them at all.

I went back and looked through a lot of stuff I had shot, and the truth was obvious. In most situations the actual light in a scene is going to be constant. If you take a few seconds to meter the scene by whatever process you like, and then dial it in in M mode you will not need to touch the exposure again as you shoot. Even better, you will not need to tweak the shots as much in post processing.

The revelation is that M mode is a time saver.

Great that you had that revelation...others need to have it as well. I made the last statement in Post #22 to make people understand the fundamentals that it is light falling on the scene that determines 'correct exposure', and not the subject brightness which affects the meter in the camera.

thank you all for your input but I have to admit most of the content has gone above my level of understanding at a practical level....I understand the theory, but applying it is well, another question. I did however take the camera out hunting and got some stills after the boys were done hunting. I have yet to download them to see how I did with TV and P modes. thank you all again. if I end up learning half as much as you then I'll be one smart cookie!

HMDH3 wrote in post #8986294
thank you all for your input but I have to admit most of the content has gone above my level of understanding at a practical level....I understand the theory, but applying it is well, another question. I did however take the camera out hunting and got some stills after the boys were done hunting. I have yet to download them to see how I did with TV and P modes. thank you all again. if I end up learning half as much as you then I'll be one smart cookie!

That's one of the beauties of digital - practice is free, and you get instantaneous feedback! Read through the information as many times as it takes, take a look at Ben's Newbie Guide to Digital Photography, and digest it all one small bite at a time. It doesn't happen overnight, but if you keep at it you'll see your proficiency improve and your results get better. I still would recommend that you pick up a copy of Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure, too...it's a very helpful read.

Veemac wrote in post #8986819
That's one of the beauties of digital - practice is free, and you get instantaneous feedback! Read through the information as many times as it takes, take a look at Ben's Newbie Guide to Digital Photography, and digest it all one small bite at a time. It doesn't happen overnight, but if you keep at it you'll see your proficiency improve and your results get better. I still would recommend that you pick up a copy of Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure, too...it's a very helpful read.

Thanks! I did review "Ben's Newbie Guide" and there is a ton of great info. I read it often, and over and over and over again. I've read http://digital-photography-school.com/ a lot and it's a useful sight as well. I know it's a work in progress, and I'll get there..........someday​.