Picture Styles Canon 5d2

Hi Guys!

I have read and re-read pages 59-64 relative to picture styles on the 5d2. However, nowhere does it say if this in-camera "processing" applies when one is shooting RAW. I shoot RAW 95% of the time and can't help but wonder if these picture style settings are applicable when shooting in RAW. After all, I always hear RAW contains "no in-camera processing" and "what the sensor sees is what you get" comments. So, is the picture style (standard, faithful, etc..) functional while in RAW mode?

IMO I'm hopeful it's not as I prefer to do all post processing myself, but do love the crisp sharp images I've been getting (camera set to default which as a 3 setting for sharpness)

Regards,
Dave

DOrtiz wrote in post #9018247
Hi Guys!

I have read and re-read pages 59-64 relative to picture styles on the 5d2. However, nowhere does it say if this in-camera "processing" applies when one is shooting RAW. I shoot RAW 95% of the time and can't help but wonder if these picture style settings are applicable when shooting in RAW. After all, I always hear RAW contains "no in-camera processing" and "what the sensor sees is what you get" comments. So, is the picture style (standard, faithful, etc..) functional while in RAW mode?

IMO I'm hopeful it's not as I prefer to do all post processing myself, but do love the crisp sharp images I've been getting (camera set to default which as a 3 setting for sharpness)

Regards,
Dave

First: The Picture Styles parameters are not applied to the raw data itself--the raw data is not changed by the Picture Styles.

Second: Understand that you can't "see" raw data. In some way or another, the raw data must be processed into some kind of image format in order for the camera or a computer to present it to you on a screen, and it's going to need some kind of processing parameters to do that. It can't show you an image without applying some set of parameters.

The converter, whether in the camera or in the computer, will use your "as shot" parameters as the default presentation parameters. Canon calls the "as shot" parameters "Picture Styles" because they provide a significant smorgasbord of them, as well as a Picture Style Editor for you to cook up your own.

But those are only the "default presentation" parameters. You still have all the raw data available to change them as you will (which would not be the case if you had the camera process the raw data into a jpeg output). When you do make edits in the converter, all you are doing is editing the presentation parameters, not the raw data itself.

OK, please forgive me but ...

RDKirk wrote in post #9018338
First: The Picture Styles parameters are not applied to the raw data itself--the raw data is not changed by the Picture Styles.

Second: Understand that you can't "see" raw data. In some way or another, the raw data must be processed into some kind of image format in order for the camera or a computer to present it to you on a screen, and it's going to need some kind of processing parameters to do that. It can't show you an image without applying some set of parameters.

The converter, whether in the camera or in the computer, will use your "as shot" parameters as the default presentation parameters. Canon calls the "as shot" parameters "Picture Styles" because they provide a significant smorgasbord of them, as well as a Picture Style Editor for you to cook up your own.

But those are only the "default presentation" parameters. You still have all the raw data available to change them as you will (which would not be the case if you had the camera process the raw data into a jpeg output). When you do make edits in the converter, all you are doing is editing the presentation parameters, not the raw data itself.

First let me say you're obviously well versed with this technical stuff. Clearly you're not some newbie but someone with vast experience here.

Without sounding overly stupid or ignorant on my end .. could you simplify that answer? I'm venturing to say the picture settings "do" get processed into the RAW image file .. thus the "standard" picture setting which has a level-3 sharpening does "sharpen/process" the RAW image file to some degree?

Thanks for your time and interesting post.

Regards,
Dave

Hi,

The Picture Style you have set has two effects when shooting RAW, neither of which actually changes anything in the RAW file permanently.

First, the Picture Style setup determines what you see when reviewing the image on the camera's LCD screen. That's because what you are viewing is actually a smaller, embedded JPEG file. RAW itself cannot be directly displayed. The histogram for any particular image is also read from that embedded JPEG, so it's effected, too.

For this reason, I use Natural or Standard and go into it to turn down contrast as far as it will go and dial up sharpening a little on all my cameras. That gives me a reasonably good histogram, and an image that's good enough to enlarge and judge focus accuracy to some degree. However, I never fully rely upon what I see on the back of the camera to evaluate an image. It's just not accurate enough. I'll usually wait to see the image on a computer monitor to judge it. In other words, I only delete obviously bad images (really bad focus, poor composition, accidental shot of my toes) directly from the camera.

Second, if you process the RAW files through Canon's own software and use the automated modes, the software will use the "tags" or specifications recorded with the file per the Picture Style settings. Third party softwares used for processing (Photoshop/Lightroom/A​dobe Camera RAW, etc.) do not use that processing information, so there is no concern. And, with Canon's DPP you can easily reverse the process or simply not use an automated setting that uses the info to process the file. Or you can re-process the image differently.

The RAW file data isn't actually changed permanently in any way by the tags on it.

Well, remember "back in the day" when we shot film in a camera and then had the film processed to an intermediate stage: The negative.

But we couldn't do much with just the negative--you couldn't even seen the picture of it very well. So we would take the negative and send it to a custom lab for printing. We would take the lab envelope and write our custom print requirements on it: Printer lighter or print darker, crop a certain way, make the sky darker or make the grass lighter, et cetera. Then we would put the negative into the envelope and send it to the lab.

Later the lab would send the pictures back, printed according to our instructions, along with the negative. But the negative had not been changed at all--it was still just as it was when we sent it to the lab.

It's kind of the same way with raw data. The light hits the sensor and creates electrical signals. These are processed into an intermediate stage: The raw data. But we can't do much with the raw data--we can't even see a picture in it.

A display image that is viewable must be created from the raw data. We write the printing instructions on the "envelope" of the raw data and then a computer (either in the camera or on the desktop) creates a display image according to the instructions we've written on the "envelope." But the raw data itself has not been changed--the instructions are written on an "envelope" that contains the data.

Whenever we want another image created from the raw data, we can either use the instructions already on its "envelope," or we can rewrite the instructions. All that gets changed are the instructions on the "envelope." The raw data inside the "envelope" is never changed.