Indoor flash problem

Hi All
I have been asked to take some images at one of our local judo clubs. I had my first attempt the other evening...not happy with those shadows.

The venue is quite small, naff cluttered background. The ceiling was too high to bounce flash.

I set my 40D camera and 580EX to full manual. 1/320 to 1/400 at f5.6 + - ISO 200. I used a Tamron 28-78 f2.8 I also tried my 70-200 f2.8 IS but that was too long at 70mm. All the images suffer from that shadow, I shot some images without flash but the shutter speeds were too low to stop the action...I tried increasing the ISO that introduced noise.

I am going again later this week, I plan to use ETTL FE Lock I am wondering if that was the problem...never used this method before as I have only used the 580EX indoor bounced flash for happy snaps they were fine.

I would appreciate any expert advice or constructive comments before I go have another go.
If anyone has time just to check the private folder the password is roye
[URL="http://[URL]www.​royhowell.co.uk"]

Regards

Roy.

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With the distances and flash intensity in the sample images, the best solutions are a rotating camera bracket to place the light above the lens, or a diffuser, or bounce flash. A combination of the rotating bracket and diffuser would likely produce the best results.

Leaving the flash on the camera's hot shoe always will produce a side shadow when the camera is rotated and the flash is used.

Did you try? I have found bounce flash works very well on some pretty high ceilings.

DC Fan
Most kind of you to comment. I have a 10m OC-E3c lead I did think about setting that up on a tri-pod but that would rule out testing ETTL FE Lock that I was going to try. I also have a Stofen which I did not fit on the first session so I will try that. The ceiling was too high for bounce, already tried that.
Many thanks for you most helpful comments I will put that to the test on Thursday evening.

Do you think the camera settings were ok...shall I carry on in Manual Mode...would you suggest I use ETTL instead of Manual Flash...with the camera in Manual or should I use Shutter Priority.

Regards
Roy.

eigga wrote in post #9036040
Did you try? I have found bounce flash works very well on some pretty high ceilings.

I tried that Matt the ceiling the image was under exposed suppose I could have increased the ISO from 200 to 400...I will test that again.

Roy.

Try reducing your flash power to 1/32, adjust ISO as needed. This will give you the ability to burst. If you don't like it, try 1/16 or readjusting the ISO.

That is probably the issue... you are not getting any ambient with ISO that low and getting harsh shadows. Take a test shot without the flash on at your settings. Your subjects should look like shadows or have little detail.... the image should not be totally black. The ambient is important but you have to cover it with the flash on the subject to avoid ghosting.

I have bounced off a 40 ft ceiling for basketball...not been many places it wont bounce indoors.

i would try to bump up the iso all the way up maybe 1600 to 3200 and try to inc EC on the flash if the ceiling is too high and bounce it from there and make sure you have a bounce card too.

see if that works.

the shots look like the major light source is the flash.

You might also ask some questions in the lighting forum... I got a lot of great info there when starting out.

Bump up the ISO and shoot wide open to blur the background. You will have a better balance of ambient and flash, and can shoot with lower flash power so you get faster recycle times. You may need to gel your flash so that the flash color temp matches the ambient, for white balance purposes. If the ambient is tungsten, try different CTO's on your flash.

Also, for a different effect, consider dragging the shutter and second curtain sync'ing the flash to capture the impression of movement of the subjects.

Good luck!

Kirk

kirkt wrote in post #9036939
Bump up the ISO and shoot wide open to blur the background. You will have a better balance of ambient and flash, and can shoot with lower flash power so you get faster recycle times. You may need to gel your flash so that the flash color temp matches the ambient, for white balance purposes. If the ambient is tungsten, try different CTO's on your flash.

Also, for a different effect, consider dragging the shutter and second curtain sync'ing the flash to capture the impression of movement of the subjects.

Good luck!

Kirk

+1^

F5.6 and ISO 200 are settings for outdoors. The 40d is more than capable of producing good shots at ISO 800 or even 1600 which gives you loads more flash power for bouncing. In a normal indoor sports venue it takes a prime lens at F2.0 plus ISO 1600 or 3200 to get away with no flash. While using flash I would set the camera to F2.8 and ISO 800. That cobination lets in 16x more light then the settings you were using! Then bounce the flash to add the additional needed light and you will have great pictures!

g4whq wrote in post #9036062
I tried that Matt the ceiling the image was under exposed suppose I could have increased the ISO from 200 to 400...I will test that again.

Roy.

From what I see in the picture those cealings dont look high at all. Your not getting that shot at 400. Bump up the ISO and trust your 40d a little. how much FEC did you add when bouncing? Crank that up as well.

EDIT:
Sorry for the old advise. I see many have made the same suggestions already.

Hi Gentlemen
Many thanks for your help I have noted all this advice I now need to put this into practice. DC Fan mentioned using a diffuser after looking at the commercial models I found this DIY link.
http://super.nova.org/​DPR/DIY01/
I put one together in 10 minutes but I have not tested it yet, just made a template out of white card if its a success I will re-build using fun foam as suggested. I will also test that ceiling bounce again by bumping the ISO up. Once again thank you, you guys have given me plenty of options to play around with.

egga, looked at your focused on fun...what a wonderful job those are great action shots...well done.

Regards

Roy.

go with the stofen and tilt the flash at 45 degrees. Should get pretty good results. Probably only need -2/3 on ettl.