The COST of shooting a wedding.

I have a few friends that are starting photographers and are charging way to small of an amount to shoot weddings IMHO. I understand the desire to get some portfolio work, experience, etc....

And then there are the craigslist hounds... 'need a photographer but can't pay you... etc.'

I just advertising myself as an inexpensive '2nd shooter' for weddings. As I dont want to take the lead just yet. But I was doing some math, can more experienced photographers help me out here.

The COST of shooting a wedding. We will use the last wedding I was a 2nd camera for. I'm not even talking about the initial investment of equipment.

I drove 90 miles (round trip) took probably 500-600 photos with a Canon 5DMII. Used a flash and burned through two sets of batteries (note I DO have rechargables).

Shutter wear/tear = $10.80 - $16.20 (see note below for math)
Insurance = $10 (assuming $600/yr and one wedding a week)
90miles = $8-10 in fuel
90miles = $n
Batteries = $0 or $10 if non-recharble.

COST to me to help out = 36-40$

Shutter notes: Canon 5DMII is rated at 100k-150k of shutter clicks. The body cost around $2,700 to replace. So if I shot 600 picts on the low end that was $10.80 and on the high end $16.20
n(maintence... example gov't charges waht $.50 for wear and tear)

Is this pretty accurate? Am I missing anything?

Also, keep in mind I am NOT counting cost of equipment!

Cost of shutter clicks is interesting. I suspect that if you were to depreciate your camera, it would completely depreciate faster than you could get 150,000 shutter activations. Also, the cost of a $2700 camera body is not completely lost when you "wear out" the shutter, although I wouldn't know if a replacement (zero-time) new shutter would exceed the value of the body when it does fail.

I have no idea if my comments would change significantly your overall cost . . . just a couple of immediate thoughts on your calculations . . .

What about your time? Labor has a value as well.

And, markup on all of the above.

I'll grant you that you're trying to get established and find a niche but working for nothing but "at cost" is a long-term losing proposition.

You left out one of the most valuable things... YOUR TIME.

The shutter is only one of many parts on your camera that may break. You're calculating your replacement period of the device on the mean time between failure of one part. This may be like calculating the expense of a car based on how long the alternator is supposed to last. Common practice is to use an average repairs per time period (including lenses, flashes, and camera batteries), divide that by average events per time period and come up with an average repair cost per event. (Depreciation is another subject, and is a tax write off.)

The US Government credits about $0.55 per mile (which includes both fuel and maintenance). 90 miles ~$50.

Don't forget the "little" things either. If you purchased a set of clothes particularly for shooting the event that is also part of the cost. Camera bags and cases are also part of the cost equation. Parking fees (a friend of mine was married in a public park that required a $5 parking permit) are also included. Any other incidental purchases also add up.

And, of course, like flying and jacuff said, your time.

lol @ shutter click wear and tear

why don't we add exposing our camera to loud noises while we're at it

we can also add

dust collecting on the sensor and a cleaning every few months
erosion on the buttons from your fingers touching them

dont forget the cost of rechargeable batteries by the kwh!

mikekelley wrote in post #9038883
lol @ shutter click wear and tear

why don't we add exposing our camera to loud noises while we're at it

we can also add

dust collecting on the sensor and a cleaning every few months
erosion on the buttons from your fingers touching them

dont forget the cost of rechargeable batteries by the kwh!

You can be damn sure I'm deducting maintenance expenses...

The only way to figure your expenses accurately is to do it as a business for a few years and then look at your accounts. You will probably spend more on everything than you expect, from sellotape to taxes, clothing to fuses... there's tons of stuff you don't think of right away.

Sorry, yes, of course time. I am talking looking for numbers that are not 'bias'
Example, im a worthless photographer and my time is worth two dog biscuits and a happy meal while Mike Kelly is a fine artist who can charge 100$ an hour.

If we have the same equipment, there is some SIGNIFICANT wear and tear that can be calculated that applies to both of us.

Mileage = mileage.
$ per click = $ per click.

Perhaps I am wrong but I just heard the life expectancy of the 5DMII was 100k-150k which IMHO seems a tad low. Or maybe I know too many happy triggered photographers that take 500+ photos on a family shoot.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #9038591
What about your time? Labor has a value as well.

And, markup on all of the above.

I'll grant you that you're trying to get established and find a niche but working for nothing but "at cost" is a long-term losing proposition.

In fact once you've established a price base it is VERY difficult to move up from it.

Add in time and equipment. It's very labour intensive.

I wouldn't worry to much about your current equipment value and depreciation. You bought it as a hobby item and now want to turn it into a business so it's really not that important. What is important is valuing the equipment your going to need to buy in the future.

If you start out charging a low few and you don't make very much money then when the times comes and you need to upgrade that Mark II (estimate 1.5 years... The Mark II is already 1 year old and newer better technologies will be available soon enough) you are going to be looking at some pretty hard purchases.

Look at it like this. Even if your only goal was to pay for new equipment your first year and you had a semi decent list of gear to buy...

New body $2500-5000
70-200 2.8 $1500
85 1.2 $1650
iMac $2400 (gonna need a fast computer to edit your photos)
backup storage drives $400
memory cards $200
misc other stuff $500-2000

So now just for a small amount of equipment upgrades your looking at needing to earn between $9,150-$13,150 not taking into account website,insurance etc etc other expenses.

So now to pay for that gear you will need to shoot a minimum of 10-13 weddings at $1000 each or 20-26 at $500 or whatever you decide in your first 1.5 years in business. Remember the lower your price the more time and expenses you will incur per dollar earned.

nicodemusdog wrote in post #9038475
I have a few friends that are starting photographers and are charging way to small of an amount to shoot weddings IMHO. I understand the desire to get some portfolio work, experience, etc....

And then there are the craigslist hounds... 'need a photographer but can't pay you... etc.'

I just advertising myself as an inexpensive '2nd shooter' for weddings. As I dont want to take the lead just yet. But I was doing some math, can more experienced photographers help me out here.

The COST of shooting a wedding. We will use the last wedding I was a 2nd camera for. I'm not even talking about the initial investment of equipment.

I drove 90 miles (round trip) took probably 500-600 photos with a Canon 5DMII. Used a flash and burned through two sets of batteries (note I DO have rechargables).

Shutter wear/tear = $10.80 - $16.20 (see note below for math)
Insurance = $10 (assuming $600/yr and one wedding a week)
90miles = $8-10 in fuel
90miles = $n
Batteries = $0 or $10 if non-recharble.

COST to me to help out = 36-40$

Shutter notes: Canon 5DMII is rated at 100k-150k of shutter clicks. The body cost around $2,700 to replace. So if I shot 600 picts on the low end that was $10.80 and on the high end $16.20
n(maintence... example gov't charges waht $.50 for wear and tear)

Is this pretty accurate? Am I missing anything?

Also, keep in mind I am NOT counting cost of equipment!

Google the standard mileage dedcuction. $0.55 / mile or $49.50...

Just so the OP is aware...

You can take the mileage allowance or you can do a break down of all your vehicle related expenses (and they better be correct and accurate) but you can not do both.

The costs associated are one of the reasons why so many pros are finding things tough at the moment, and also the fact that there are so many people out there who just go and buy a decent SLR and think that they can start up in business.

In factoring in costs (even asa a semi-pro) it is important to take ALL the costs.

Overheads: Tax, insurance, running costs, travel, equipment, food etc.
Time: You MUST include a cost for your actual time otherwise it degrades your worth and people start to expect something for nothing.
When working out time dont forget to work out ALL the time. Pre Wedding, travel, Actual Coverage and ALL post production work and meetings etc.

When you start to do all of that you will soon find out that the costs can mount up.

I was once told that it is a BIG MISTAKE to be too cheap because it is very difficult to start pushing up prices if you get a reputation at the lower end of the market. It is easier to lower prices slightly than to increase them.