Canon 1Ds mark 4

DaveInAZ wrote in post #10442143
And a big part of that processing is turning the greyscale sensor data into something consumer software will interpret as colors and separating image data from noise.

But this does nothing to effect dynamic range, and makes minor changes to the final data file. The processor has nowhere near the effect of say, a brand new sensor design on final image quality.

DaveInAZ wrote in post #10442143
It's also why cameras with the latest processors (1D Mk IV)are able to rip off 30 + frames at 10 fps without slowing down, but older cameras can't.

.
Yes, but this has nothing to do with IQ, which was my point.

DaveInAZ wrote in post #10442143
It's also the difference between a usable 25,600 ISO versus 800 ISO

Not for Raw

Austin.Manny wrote in post #10442184
Wow, I always just thought of the processor in terms of FPS. I never knew it had impact on image noise.

Is that why people say, for example, the 40D is better at higher ISO than a 400D - is it the processor that makes it better? I always thought it was just nonsense.

For a jpeg, yes. For a raw, I'd be doubtful of anyone who says one camera is better at high ISO than the other, when the same sensor is used.

As he mentioned, the processor does indeed run through raw image data, but it's really miniscule and the major difference in final output for a Raw image is down to the sensor and convertors.

My guess, the most important things it will offer is a better viewing screen, HD video and an improve sensor. The 5DII is making important news in the television world and this looks like Canon has the shoe in, so it only seems to make sense to get them converted to a more durable and more expensive professional camera. That said the line is thin regarding that statement because the 5DII has already proven it'self as a professional camera.

I can tell you one thing about the motion industry, they do not want a bunch of different cameras that need different lens mounts, rental houses will carry this stuff complete and compatability and availability for full blown production have to have a common knowledge factor and they will have their own in house repair people. A movie with a high number of affects, stunts etc, will be ordering a lot more cameras simply because it means better coverage and they can be run remotely which is all pretty cool.

The better screen, maybe even larger, will necessitate use of products like the Hoodman for motion camera operators. The improved sensor will even more seriously compete with the medium format still cameras and better facilitate special effects in the motion industry as well as improved ISO performance will cinch it into that industry which will quickly divert any concerns about higher costs per unit which will be saved by lower lighting costs which by the way are huge.

HD video is a big deal, it's made a serious jump very quickly to the motion industry, this means a lot of money on two fronts, not only that it moves into the professional movie industry as a new source income but more importantly is that sets the standard which makes the higher end cameras appeal to those already professional photographers and not yet professionals who want to make movies into buying instead of renting which is a big part of the way the motion industry has functioned.

Just look at the new follow focus, matte box rigs being designed along with the new Zeiss lenses with external focusing gears for these systems already on the lenses, look at the footage markers on the lenses, and the way the lenses are setup specifically for motion shooting. Zeiss is putting a huge investment into this with the expectations that it will be lucrative, it makes me wonder if Canon will just make one huge jump and come up with a new version that is solely designed for motion only but only but unlike the older digital video cameras it now offers. Take the 5DII, ask everyone in the movie industry what they want and make it, and then make it and a second version of lower price that every photographer who wants to make really high quality movies all done with their own camera and computer and it looks like a winning combination.

All the more you need is a talent for making movies happen but with the physical end becoming easier and more accessable, it certainly seems there will be no limit to the number of really talented people being able to express that talent.

It will in turn probably bring the costs of movie making down, flood the world with directors/cameraperson​s who will do it for very little and end up becoming less sustainable similar to the still photography business but it's not something you can stop so ride with it and see where it takes you.

I am done with the motion end of things, that's what I used to do but already it looks like I have some very simple motion stuff to shoot for the same people I'm shooting stills for, as websites expand so does the way we work.

And face it, if Canon designs a camera specifically for the motion industry and charges $15,000 and that camera takes them from where they are now to a much better place, the cost will be nothing compared to what they have been using, basically less than the cost of a decent zoom lens for a motion camera.

Expect to see more lenses from Zeiss and also zooms from a company named Angenieux in France, fabulous lenses.

It wasn't the AF or AE systems, or the battery life, dust removal etc. that attracted the motion industry to the 5DII, it was the sensor and processor and what those could provide them to work with, so everything else is worked around or created to accomate this which has to be shaking up the motion industry considerably and it's pretty neat to think of the possibilities.

Me, well I prolly can't afford one, best I'm hoping for right now is a MKIV or a IDsMKIII which will probably far exceed my needs, but new equipment design is pretty exciting.

An independent film production company have been filming a documentary about London Zoo since way back into 2009, under the title of 'The world's oldest zoo' or something which has just about ended. Due for a couple of hour long episodes on ITV. The director spotted a 32GB card on my desk, then spotted a 5D2, figured I might take things reasonably seriously, and suggested I get some footage of something relevant at the time, I think a baby Emperor Tamarin or some Asiatic Lion footage. Done and dusted with my 300L. Given they've been with us for almost a year and subsequent months of footage, I have no idea if it will be used, but what a statement for how far things have come for Richard to feel confident would be good enough to go alongside his film camera footage, quite frankly unnoticed.

good predictions but I think they will suit 5D3 better. I just can't see canon doing that to 1Ds4 and here is why. 1Ds series really doesn't need an huge upgrade or redesign like the 1D series.

I think canon is just going to do the typical steroid upgrade to 1Ds4 as they did to 1D4. So, we should expect 32mpx, better ISO, more DR and so on. Things like MLU button and stuff is just icing on the cake. so 1Ds4 is just gonna be a steroid upgraded 1Ds3. Which isn't necessarily bad, as 1Ds series really doesn't need a complete redesign of invention. It was always the 1D series that was lacking behind. What did canon do about it!? they gave steroid to 1D3 to the point of explosion and then put it on sale. There is just nothing more that the 1.3 sensor can give us in 1D5. That means this is the last 1.3crop 1D series camera from canon. It is a huge upgrade from 1D3, but it just feels like they gave 1D3 steroids and then put in on sale. Everyone was hoping for a FF 1D4, with super clean high ISO but that just didn't happen. Huge mistake on canons part. 1Ds 4 should be on par with 1D4 upgrade. So we'll get dual digic 4s, 32mpx, better ISO, and as I said earlier MLU button, and other things are just icing on the cake that we might not get. Video wise, 1Ds4 will have some new functions to justify the $8k price tag but nothing special. Canon had many opportunities before to seriously upgrade video capabilities before, but pretty much all DSLRS from canon represent the same video level. from reading many interviews with Tim Smith and reading forums and people that work for canon I can tell you that they are all saving it for 5D3.

EVERYTHING ties together to 5D3 release time frame. EVERYTHING. Digig 5, fits perfectly to be released in late 2011 ( just as 5D3 ). There is no doubt that we will see a 5D3 announcement in 2011. And this is what canon does best. Not the total high end stuff but the high end stuff at an affordable price point. Best example - 7D. Came out of nowhere and destroyed everything. And thats what canon can do. They do everything for themselves so they can afford to make these gadgets work ( just as apple ). Canon does their own sensors, canon does their own manufacturing, canon does their own CPUs (Digic), canon does their own everything.

Why nikon is not successful in the mid - high range is cause they use Sony sensors, they manufacture somewhere in China probably (lol ^^). Only thing nikon does themselves are lenses. Its easy nowadays to get the technology but its not easy to sell it at an affordable price point. lol. The Cold War is ovaaa. Thats why nikon is successful at the total high end. To see what I mean, lets look at other industries, like a car industry. There are many manufacturers that have joined the super car industry lately. Pagani Zonda, Keniesnegg ( or however you spell it), spyker, and so on. Why did they succeed? Cause technology isn't something special anymore. Everyone can get the technology nowadays, but its much harder to sell it at an affordable price. All these cars that I mentioned before, succeed cause total high end market doesn't need to be justified by price. They create their cars and then put a $1million price tag on that. Everyone could do such a thing. You don't see many new car manufacturers entering the mid-rage market. There are no paganis or spykers competing with Honda accords as obviously they could never go down to that price.

Well ... coming back to cameras. Canon is a huge company with R&D, and what they do best is the mid-level stuff ( exactly as apple). So with 5D3 launch everything ties together to this climax of upgrades. Photo guys/gals are excited as it'll get the 1Ds4 32mpx sensor and 7D autofocusing, and film guys/gals are excited as 5D3 will get Digit 5 to support the new codec and new videofeatures. What you're looking here at is probably ... well, not probably, but THE most anticipated DSLR launch ever in the history of well ... image making. ^^ How do I know this!?

Easy, 5D3 WILLLLLLLLLLLL get 7D autofocus, that is a fact!! 100% fact already! Thats the easy part of 5D3 upgrade. it'll get 1Ds 4 sensor as before as well. The exciting news are for video people. New digic 5 will be able to support the new codes that canon started making (look at X300, X305). Dual digic 4 are just too slow for a whole new codec. Otherwise canon would have upgraded it before. Tim Smith mentioned before that canon is working on new video codes now, and they will develop the right codec for the right camera. So we're probably not gonna get the new 50Mbps codes from X305, but something more suitable to 5D3 and FF. every codec is gonna be faster then H264 so anything really is an improvement. Dual digic 4 just cant support H264 at a higher bitrate.

The DSLR form factor is not going away as companies like Red Rock, Zacuto, Arri abd so on are earning shiet tons of money on the accessories for these cameras. They probably have enough many now to pay canon for 5D3 R&D. lol. For them, if canon improves - they get more $$. lol ^^.

Who can do it all!? only canon. 5D3 is going to be the most anticipated DLSR launched ever. Phtogs are gonna go crazy for 32mpx FF with 7D autofocus and video guys will have a whole new codec and new features. I know this is a 1Ds 4 thread but my post should give you perspective on whats to come and how canon is dividing their strength. Ofcourse this is just my opinion but it is based on many hours of R&D, lol ^^ Maybe canon will suprize us all and release 1Ds4 with 4k 120fps video, and 18 stop latitude for RAW photos with 62mpx but ... I just can't se it happening this time around.

To say Nikon are not successful is being economical with the truth. The reality is that Nikon have been taking market share from Canon. Oh, and Canon use Sony LCD's, the Sony logo is under the Canon logo'ed top cover in all its glory.

However I can only hope your MLU button prediction is correct.

Mastamarek wrote in post #10501115
good predictions but I think they will suit 5D3 better. I just can't see canon doing that to 1Ds4 and here is why. 1Ds series really doesn't need an huge upgrade or redesign like the 1D series.

I think canon is just going to do the typical steroid upgrade to 1Ds4 as they did to 1D4. So, we should expect 32mpx, better ISO, more DR and so on. Things like MLU button and stuff is just icing on the cake. so 1Ds4 is just gonna be a steroid upgraded 1Ds3. Which isn't necessarily bad, as 1Ds series really doesn't need a complete redesign of invention. It was always the 1D series that was lacking behind. What did canon do about it!? they gave steroid to 1D3 to the point of explosion and then put it on sale. There is just nothing more that the 1.3 sensor can give us in 1D5. That means this is the last 1.3crop 1D series camera from canon. It is a huge upgrade from 1D3, but it just feels like they gave 1D3 steroids and then put in on sale. Everyone was hoping for a FF 1D4, with super clean high ISO but that just didn't happen. Huge mistake on canons part. 1Ds 4 should be on par with 1D4 upgrade. So we'll get dual digic 4s, 32mpx, better ISO, and as I said earlier MLU button, and other things are just icing on the cake that we might not get. Video wise, 1Ds4 will have some new functions to justify the $8k price tag but nothing special. Canon had many opportunities before to seriously upgrade video capabilities before, but pretty much all DSLRS from canon represent the same video level. from reading many interviews with Tim Smith and reading forums and people that work for canon I can tell you that they are all saving it for 5D3.

EVERYTHING ties together to 5D3 release time frame. EVERYTHING. Digig 5, fits perfectly to be released in late 2011 ( just as 5D3 ). There is no doubt that we will see a 5D3 announcement in 2011. And this is what canon does best. Not the total high end stuff but the high end stuff at an affordable price point. Best example - 7D. Came out of nowhere and destroyed everything. And thats what canon can do. They do everything for themselves so they can afford to make these gadgets work ( just as apple ). Canon does their own sensors, canon does their own manufacturing, canon does their own CPUs (Digic), canon does their own everything.

Why nikon is not successful in the mid - high range is cause they use Sony sensors, they manufacture somewhere in China probably (lol ^^). Only thing nikon does themselves are lenses. Its easy nowadays to get the technology but its not easy to sell it at an affordable price point. lol. The Cold War is ovaaa. Thats why nikon is successful at the total high end. To see what I mean, lets look at other industries, like a car industry. There are many manufacturers that have joined the super car industry lately. Pagani Zonda, Keniesnegg ( or however you spell it), spyker, and so on. Why did they succeed? Cause technology isn't something special anymore. Everyone can get the technology nowadays, but its much harder to sell it at an affordable price. All these cars that I mentioned before, succeed cause total high end market doesn't need to be justified by price. They create their cars and then put a $1million price tag on that. Everyone could do such a thing. You don't see many new car manufacturers entering the mid-rage market. There are no paganis or spykers competing with Honda accords as obviously they could never go down to that price.

Well ... coming back to cameras. Canon is a huge company with R&D, and what they do best is the mid-level stuff ( exactly as apple). So with 5D3 launch everything ties together to this climax of upgrades. Photo guys/gals are excited as it'll get the 1Ds4 32mpx sensor and 7D autofocusing, and film guys/gals are excited as 5D3 will get Digit 5 to support the new codec and new videofeatures. What you're looking here at is probably ... well, not probably, but THE most anticipated DSLR launch ever in the history of well ... image making. ^^ How do I know this!?

Easy, 5D3 WILLLLLLLLLLLL get 7D autofocus, that is a fact!! 100% fact already! Thats the easy part of 5D3 upgrade. it'll get 1Ds 4 sensor as before as well. The exciting news are for video people. New digic 5 will be able to support the new codes that canon started making (look at X300, X305). Dual digic 4 are just too slow for a whole new codec. Otherwise canon would have upgraded it before. Tim Smith mentioned before that canon is working on new video codes now, and they will develop the right codec for the right camera. So we're probably not gonna get the new 50Mbps codes from X305, but something more suitable to 5D3 and FF. every codec is gonna be faster then H264 so anything really is an improvement. Dual digic 4 just cant support H264 at a higher bitrate.

The DSLR form factor is not going away as companies like Red Rock, Zacuto, Arri abd so on are earning shiet tons of money on the accessories for these cameras. They probably have enough many now to pay canon for 5D3 R&D. lol. For them, if canon improves - they get more $$. lol ^^.

Who can do it all!? only canon. 5D3 is going to be the most anticipated DLSR launched ever. Phtogs are gonna go crazy for 32mpx FF with 7D autofocus and video guys will have a whole new codec and new features. I know this is a 1Ds 4 thread but my post should give you perspective on whats to come and how canon is dividing their strength. Ofcourse this is just my opinion but it is based on many hours of R&D, lol ^^ Maybe canon will suprize us all and release 1Ds4 with 4k 120fps video, and 18 stop latitude for RAW photos with 62mpx but ... I just can't se it happening this time around.

I definitely see where you're going with this and all points are well taken. I still want the 1Ds IV regardless even if it falls behind in tech for the next 5D III. If the 5D III comes out next year, I'll be in line for sure.

Lowner wrote in post #10501390
The reality is that Nikon have been taking market share from Canon.

Whist thats true how much of that is because canon picked up business when nikon didnt have any decent higher level bodies ( full frame and CMOS sensor etc).

D2x vs 1D series etc wasnt exactly close.

With the D300, D700 , D3 etc they firmly put there foot back into the high end market , its no suprise people shifted towards nikon, it was never going to be the other direction.

Canon could have brought out a D300 competitor sooner and a 5D2 with better autofocusing though would have helped a lot.

Sony has the biggest potential for market-share right now with producing Nikon's sensors, Canon's displays and having it's own dSLR system with Carl Zeiss making AF-enabled lenses just for them. It is rather scary and exciting when you think about just what Sony can do to shake things up. In-body image stabilization was smart, but now what if they integrated it into lenses as well and somehow managed to add additional stops of image stabilization to the picture? A synergistic image stabilizing lens/body system like this could be quite fearsome to behold.

Now if only they were popping out some fast primes.

I do like their approach to the battery grip though...a lot.

Luminodio wrote in post #10502205
Sony has the biggest potential for market-share right now with producing Nikon's sensors, Canon's displays and having it's own dSLR system with Carl Zeiss making AF-enabled lenses just for them. It is rather scary and exciting when you think about just what Sony can do to shake things up. In-body image stabilization was smart, but now what if they integrated it into lenses as well and somehow managed to add additional stops of image stabilization to the picture? A synergistic image stabilizing lens/body system like this could be quite fearsome to behold.

Now if only they were popping out some fast primes.

I do like their approach to the battery grip though...a lot.

Wow! Canon with Zeiss glass that has AF? If they build it, I will buy it.

Luminodio wrote in post #10502205
Sony has the biggest potential for market-share right now with producing Nikon's sensors, Canon's displays and having it's own dSLR system with Carl Zeiss making AF-enabled lenses just for them. It is rather scary and exciting when you think about just what Sony can do to shake things up. In-body image stabilization was smart, but now what if they integrated it into lenses as well and somehow managed to add additional stops of image stabilization to the picture? A synergistic image stabilizing lens/body system like this could be quite fearsome to behold.

Now if only they were popping out some fast primes.

I do like their approach to the battery grip though...a lot.

i agree. it was hard for me to sell my a700 and zeiss AF glass to move to canon. hopefully sony surprises me at photokina. B/c as of now they are taking far too long to integrate video into their pro bodies, get a decent AF system, change the horrible top LCD, and maybe provide a built-in vertical grip... and like you said their primes are weak right now.

jdizzle wrote in post #10502271
Wow! Canon with Zeiss glass that has AF? If they build it, I will buy it.

me too

Might be a problem for Nikon if Sony decides they are keeping the goodies (next generation sensor technology) for themselves but Canon can always source their displays from TSMC or whoever else manufactures them.

I cannot see Sony "cutting off a nose to spite their face". If they tried to put the squeeze on Nikon, Sony would be the loser as they cannot be the only source of supply.