Canon 1Ds mark 4

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #10728832
I'm surprised there is any talk about this at all, is there really a belief that the 1Ds MkIV will be any different from previous 1Ds models,.

ie: anything different from a FF 1D MkIV with higher pixel count?

What's left to "rumor" about?

I am hoping new features found in the newer cameras like flash commander and stuff =)

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #10728832
I'm surprised there is any talk about this at all, is there really a belief that the 1Ds MkIV will be any different from previous 1Ds models,.

ie: anything different from a FF 1D MkIV with higher pixel count?

What's left to "rumor" about?

I'm more interested on the "rumor" release date; could care less about the features, because I'll know it'll have way more than I want. Would be disappointed if they didn't include video mode.

-David

dKweddings.net wrote in post #10729054
I'm more interested on the "rumor" release date; could care less about the features, because I'll know it'll have way more than I want. Would be disappointed if they didn't include video mode.

I would expect, if it includes video, that it'll be able to shoot RAW video, something that professional videographers have been chomping at the bit for. And that's understandable, since if they get it then they'll suddenly have the exposure latitude in their digital videos that they currently get with film. That would be a coup d'etat for Canon, and would send sales of their most expensive flagship DSLR through the roof. I can't see how it wouldn't make film in the movie industry instantly obsolete.

^^^ But they didn't introduce that in their latest pro camcorders so why on a DSLR? Not that I don't want to see that but seems unlikely.

I do hope that the new model is affordable to a semi pro - if it's at around £8k, it may be worth looking at MF digital.

i totally agree, i will never drop 8k on a dslr - next step is surely MF digital. which is what i want but nobody wants to trade their kit with me.....

kcbrown wrote in post #10729295
I would expect, if it includes video, that it'll be able to shoot RAW video, something that professional videographers have been chomping at the bit for.

thats simply ... impossible at this stage in technology.

Mastamarek wrote in post #10729489
thats simply ... impossible at this stage in technology.

Hmm...yeah, looks like it.

If it's 1080p, then at 24 FPS and 12 bits per color channel, you'd be writing 112 megabytes per second worth of video data, assuming 50% compression. Even with dual cards, you still don't have enough storage bandwidth to do that. CF bandwidth would have to roughly double in speed to pull it off.

kcbrown wrote in post #10729669
Hmm...yeah, looks like it.

If it's 1080p, then at 24 FPS and 12 bits per color channel, you'd be writing 112 megabytes per second worth of video data, assuming 50% compression. Even with dual cards, you still don't have enough storage bandwidth to do that. CF bandwidth would have to roughly double in speed to pull it off.

storage bandwidth is half the story ^_^ putting an quad core i7 into 1Ds4 to handle all that data is another another half. lol, RED allows you to choose 2xSSD drives in RAID0. problem solved its just that they charge you $1600 for that option.

And to think that people are complaining about image size from the 5DMkII...

Could you imagine what uncompressed video would do to people?

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #10729759
Could you imagine what uncompressed video would do to people?

RAW video (or so they say it is, lol) has been out for quite some time. Here's a sample work flow to handle all that data ^_^

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=Y-6EQo6it7Y

Mastamarek wrote in post #10729772
RAW video (or so they say it is, lol) has been out for quite some time. Here's a sample work flow to handle all that data ^_^

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=Y-6EQo6it7Y

That's insane amount of storage/equipment!

kcbrown wrote in post #10729669
Hmm...yeah, looks like it.

If it's 1080p, then at 24 FPS and 12 bits per color channel, you'd be writing 112 megabytes per second worth of video data, assuming 50% compression. Even with dual cards, you still don't have enough storage bandwidth to do that. CF bandwidth would have to roughly double in speed to pull it off.

With the ways these bayer sensors work, each pixel is just a 12 or 14 bit piece of data, not an RGB value. Interpolation is done later. Assuming 1080p, 24 fps, and 12 bits per channel, you're looking at just short of 80 MB/sec uncompressed. To push that on disks in real time you'd need around 12 spindles at 7200RPM, assuming a default 64 KB stripe, and that's assuming a perfect RAID controller. On flash media it's doable, but only when you start talking extremely good flash media, not the stuff you generally stick in cameras. And yeah, maximum theoretical throughput of a disk or disk array is number of spindles * speed * stripe size. Disks generally only read one stripe per revolution.

Basically, it's not happening for another few years, but it might be sooner than you thought based on the numbers you ran.

Edit: And yeah, if you're wondering about disk throughput, disks generally can only touch one stripe per revolution, so the calculation is rpm*spindles*stripe. A 7200 RPM disk with 64 KB stripes will be able to sustain 7.5MB/sec completely random in theory... In practice it's not that good, even sequential.

There's a good reason most professional edit suites are built around RAID arrays spinning at 10K...

Thalagyrt wrote in post #10734220
With the ways these bayer sensors work, each pixel is just a 12 or 14 bit piece of data, not an RGB value. Interpolation is done later. Assuming 1080p, 24 fps, and 12 bits per channel, you're looking at just short of 80 MB/sec uncompressed. To push that on disks in real time you'd need around 12 spindles at 7200RPM, assuming a default 64 KB stripe, and that's assuming a perfect RAID controller. On flash media it's doable, but only when you start talking extremely good flash media, not the stuff you generally stick in cameras.

If that's the rate uncompressed, then compressed it would be (on average) about 40 megabytes per second. That's within the range of current CF technology, even if you're talking about targeting a single card instead of striping it across two.

50% is probably a conservative estimate of the compression ratio. I expect that a properly tailored compression algorithm would get significantly better than that.

Anyway, yeah, you'd need extremely good flash media, but we're talking about an $8000 camera here. Canon would have to make it abundantly clear that the feature won't work with anything less than the best performing stuff you can get right now, but aside from that it shouldn't be an issue at all. The guys that would buy an $8k camera to do RAW video aren't going to think twice about the price of the requisite CF cards, since the total package would be quite a lot less expensive than what they're used to paying right now. They'll be ecstatic that it's possible to get RAW video at all.

Like I said, if Canon can pull this off with the 1Ds4, it will fly off the shelves (at least, compared with what you'd expect from a camera that costs $8k). Nikon would be left behind in the dust, and I'm quite sure that Canon would like that very, very much.

Canon's got a lot of incentive to do this, so I won't be surprised at all to see it happen on the 1Ds4.

Mastamarek wrote in post #10729772
RAW video (or so they say it is, lol) has been out for quite some time. Here's a sample work flow to handle all that data ^_^

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=Y-6EQo6it7Y

I really appreciated his closing remarks re "scalability" as the steps taken for his massive data, are steps we should all be considering on a smaller scale.
Multiple copies of RAW data, off site back up,. incremental back ups of live work,. all awesome info.

His server almost rivals the old Skynet V 2.0 Render farm for shear heat and noise......