State High School Football

OK: let's take a quick survey here: Who else thinks it's long past time for Dave to drop the "noob"? Are you kidding me? Excellent stuff!

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #9141275
That's what I mean - they have a contract with the state so under the table would not be smart on their part. 4-500 isn't horrible but you should be getting a cut, especially at the prices they have...lot of money left on the table.

OT - did they do a better job of keeping GWC's off the sideline than some states do?

The security did a good job of keeping non credentialed people in the stands. The bad part is that there were too many credentialed gwc's because they shoot for the school or what not lol. I can't really say much s they did have credentials.

Terry Healy wrote in post #9142068
OK: let's take a quick survey here: Who else thinks it's long past time for Dave to drop the "noob"? Are you kidding me? Excellent stuff!

Lol nah ill keep it. Thanks though.

canonnoob wrote in post #9144696
The security did a good job of keeping non credentialed people in the stands. The bad part is that there were too many credentialed gwc's because they shoot for the school or what not lol. I can't really say much s they did have credentials.

That's half the problem - if you're going to have an exclusive, in my eyes, you should be controlling who gets credentialed and school/team photogs shouldn't be getting them. Papers and other real news sites of course, but not them as it's usually a student or PWC that has no clue what they're doing. There was a ton here, not as much as playoffs but still too many.

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #9145717
That's half the problem - if you're going to have an exclusive, in my eyes, you should be controlling who gets credentialed and school/team photogs shouldn't be getting them. Papers and other real news sites of course, but not them as it's usually a student or PWC that has no clue what they're doing. There was a ton here, not as much as playoffs but still too many.

agreed... I would sit down and have a certain spot only to have about 4 people (non Media) come and sit over me with a XXXd body or XXd body and a 55-250 or something of that nature..

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #9145717
That's half the problem - if you're going to have an exclusive, in my eyes, you should be controlling who gets credentialed and school/team photogs shouldn't be getting them. Papers and other real news sites of course, but not them as it's usually a student or PWC that has no clue what they're doing. There was a ton here, not as much as playoffs but still too many.

Hold on a second, while I understand where you are coming from, schools absolutely should be first on the list for credentials - especially if their shooter is a student. While it may not seem like "real" news to you, some of these school actually publish a school paper and ALL of them do a yearbook.

Particularly in high school sports, it's far too easy to forget that the primary function of these events is not profit for photographers.

MT wrote in post #9145945
Particularly in high school sports, it's far too easy to forget that the primary function of these events is not profit for photographers.

sorry but this is not true at all.. these events are a business just like everything else so saying that this should be a non profit for photographers is just not true. If that was the case there would be no market for sports photography in schools.. also, if that was the case I will let you tell the parents that there will be no great action shots of their kids for them to remember.

canonnoob wrote in post #9145917
agreed... I would sit down and have a certain spot only to have about 4 people (non Media) come and sit over me with a XXXd body or XXd body and a 55-250 or something of that nature..

That sounds like the equipment that the vast majority of small school media shoots with. Outside of state event I've never seen another photographer with a 1 series body. I can count whites lenses one hand.

lol you dont travel much do you? it also depends on where you are... St. Louis, Springfield, KC there are plenty of 1d's and white lenses around.. but you are correct there are a lot more of the M/DWC...

canonnoob wrote in post #9145966
sorry but this is not true at all.. these events are a business just like everything else so saying that this should be a non profit for photographers is just not true. If that was the case there would be no market for sports photography in schools.. also, if that was the case I will let you tell the parents that there will be no great action shots of their kids for them to remember.

"Primary" function. I am not, nor would I ever argue that this should be non-profit for photographers (hell I like to get paid myself). There absolutely is a place for photography as business in these events, but that is not the "primary" purpose. Restrictions to eliminate the GWC that ignore the role of schools in this go to far.

canonnoob wrote in post #9145974
lol you dont travel much do you? it also depends on where you are... St. Louis, Springfield, KC there are plenty of 1d's and white lenses around.. but you are correct there are a lot more of the M/DWC...

Actually I do travel quite a bit. But most the 1A & 2A schools I shoot don't play many St Louis, Springfield, KC or even Columbia schools. I wonder why?

At state events, in Columbia or St Louis, of course I see 1d's and white lenses - but not during the course of the regular season.

When the "official" photographers are paying 10K for the right to the event they should have the right to restrict access - it's a business. When you have a school bringing photogs that have NO clue what they're doing a lot of problems come up. This playoff season I watched more than a few times these people going where they shouldn't go including walking on the field during play, in the huddles on the sideline, almost get killed because they didn't know how to react to the players coming at them (or were plain out not paying attention with their back to the game). At this level it's run by the state, the state gets sued for these idiots when they get run over because they don't know what they're doing. Regular season it'd be the school who let them on the sideline, not states which is supposed to be more strict. Then you ad on that these people just hand over CD's just happy someone wants them and you just undercut the exclusive company.

I've coached high school sports for 17 seasons and the school yearbook and newspaper can get photos from the official photographers - most will hand them over free for that purpose in trade for an ad because it will drum up more sales. A lot safer way to do it than allowing a kid or parent that has no clue what they're doing on the sidelines.

BTW - primary function of a school is academics, any and all sports activities come second so there's no difference if the school paper shoots from the stands or on the sideline if they didn't want to use the official photographer.

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #9146069
When the "official" photographers are paying 10K for the right to the event they should have the right to restrict access - it's a business.

They do. They have the right to restrict access from any other entity that wants to profit by selling game photos.

So how many died and were sued? Not trying to be harsh, but there is sufficient stupidity to go around. I've seen working media guilty of some of those offenses and 'official' photographers shooting their first game EVER at a state event - including ones working for this company.

And they get precisely what they pay for.

Well, when I was in school, we had a class called journalism. Do you teach one called football? Granted, it was 30+ years ago when I shot from the sidelines. Granted it probably would have been a lot safer if I had just left it to the professionals. Granted we could have gotten a shot or two - in return for advertising.

We are probably going to have to agree to disagree on this.

They do. They have the right to restrict access from any other entity that wants to profit by selling game photos.

...and those that are undercutting them by giving it away as well. Look at the case in IL for any legitimate understanding of these cases.


So how many died and were sued? Not trying to be harsh, but there is sufficient stupidity to go around. I've seen working media guilty of some of those offenses and 'official' photographers shooting their first game EVER at a state event - including ones working for this company.

Injured, it's happened before - sued/died is just waiting to happen. Kind of like the overpass story if you ever heard it. Years there was no fence or rules for a fence and then one time someone throws a cinder block over the edge and killed a driver - the state of course got sued for not installing a fence. Just waiting for some parent to get killed or seriously injured and then suing because they weren't told the dangers or some stupid defense like that - it's waiting to happen.

And yes, it's true that some working media are not the brightest out there and it's up to that company to educate them before the game. OR, like they do here at the local pro stadium (baseball) the media director brings the photographer to me if he knows they're a newb and asks me to run down things. It's the companies fault for hiring the wrong person, if you don't know how to do your job at one of the big games you shouldn't of gotten the job in the first place. Don't think they should be there either - I know some that never shot a game but are giving work away for access. Nope, they shouldn't be there either and why passes say on the back they can be revoked at any time just in case this person starts acting stupid out they go.


And they get precisely what they pay for.

...while undercutting the pros because they don't always pay for quality no matter what anyone wants to say. Free and crappy is "good enough" sometimes. Seen it first hand too many times. Usually it's a case of they're not customers if they don't pay so who cares - but at these events a lot are going to buy but not when some GCW is standing right next to you taking the same shot but with less quality. If he's in the stands he can't get that shot to give away.

Well, when I was in school, we had a class called journalism. Do you teach one called football? Granted, it was 30+ years ago when I shot from the sidelines. Granted it probably would have been a lot safer if I had just left it to the professionals. Granted we could have gotten a shot or two - in return for advertising.

First thing - ask any coach, training expert, etc. and the game has gotten much faster in the last 10 years let alone 30. Players are bigger, faster, stronger, wear more equipment, etc.

Journalism is writing - photojournalism is not that known in high school. There's photography classes but they usually are like art class and don't focus much on the photojournalism type shooting when you're in high school. College is another story on that as there are programs out there. Yes, SOME schools have that type assignment but as a class, never seen one though may exist somewhere (? actually I'd like to know that if anyone has that at their schools, it sounds like a cool class - nobody around here comes close to that type shooting I know of, all still and models and that's it).

Oh, and yes they do have football in class, it's called Physical Education and football is one of the most popular ones out there for an outdoor team activity as you're supposed to have several throughout the year in that orientation (outdoor team, indoor team, indoor individual, indoor dual, etc. etc.) In college it's called activities classes and all students, at least in NY, have to take them in order to graduate and they go by the same criteria (indoor/outdoor - team/individual/dual - etc).

Any way you look at it the company or person who has the exclusive right to the event can restrict it any way they see fit! They paid for that right in most cases so can make the rules, it's not a public event, it's not on public property. They can make it so no fans have cameras, approved media has to shoot from certain areas while their photog has special rights, they can not allow certain media in for whatever reason they want, etc. They just cant tell the approved media how to run their business like IL tried to do and got shot down.

lly?

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #9146761
Journalism is writing - photojournalism is not that known in high school.

Oh really? Photography is a essential part of journalism - pick up any paper or magazine. Way back when I was in school it was well known, heck I even went to two week summer seminars at j-school specifically for photojournalism.

Thirty years ago, it was part of the journalism class. But instead of photoshop, we learned actual darkroom work. You know developing and printing images. In schools that do school papers it's still taught as journalism not art.

Pick any school with a journalism department. My favorite http://www.journalism.​missouri.edu/ (go tigers)

Alright you two.... lol


MT- I will say this... most schools in MO do NOT have a photo journalsim course. Trust me. Most schools offer photo classes that specialize in Black and White film photography. I have yet come across a school that has a dedicated photo journalism/ digital photography class. Majority are film based. Heck they even make pin hole cameras...

The Majority of journalism classes in High schools are dealing with writing, not photography...